Women car lovers still face prejudice

There's a woman about my age who races in my SCCA region's Solo and in the TDI Cup:

http://www.boston.com/cars/newsandreviews/overdrive/2009/06/interview.html.

I've had the pleasure of meeing her and her father at a few of this season's auto-x events and they're both very nice, knowlegdable people. They are also wickedly fast drivers, as she has been on the podium in BSP a few times this year. I wonder how they were able to pay for the TDI Cup, though, as I was also invited to drive a TDI Cup car this year but have no way to pay for it.

Oh, and some of the comments about her (and racing in general) make me want to slap the yellow off of those commenters' teeth.

I actually tend to assume that most women doing motorsports know what they're doing. If they drive up in their own car and start doing even the remotest bit of prep work, I figure they know the ropes. I figure that there are plenty of guys fronting and posing how cool they are, whereas any woman involved really wants to be there and knows the ropes.

My girlfriend makes a point to avoid me and not be couple-y at driving events. She does not want people to think she's there just because her boyfriend dragged her along. Her first event was really frustrating for a lot of reasons, and exasperated because she was the only woman in her run group. She was very happy that the head organizer was a woman and could understand some of her frustrations.

Interestingly, Drifting is much more balanced between the sexes than other motorsports. Maybe it's because it's a cool asian thing, or it's young and hip, or it's still kind of underground, but you will see a lot more women with their own cars, or couples sharing a car, where the gal actually knows what she's doing.

walterj wrote:

EastCoastMojo wrote: ... assumption that you are there because you are nice to look at ...

It would not be appropriate to ask for pics at this juncture would it? :)

That is wildly inappropriate and I thank you for it.

I'm surprised that Leslie has not chimed in on this. She is an ace mechanic, very involved in racing, and cleans up very nicely. Where are you, kid?

Well I gained the distinction of being yet another man beat by Mary Pozzi at autocross. Do a you tube search on her and you'll find plenty of video of her absolutely burning up the course at west coast Good Guys autocrosses.

Last weekend she entered the STS class in the SCCA Nor-Pac divisional autocross series here in the SF bay area. I consider it an acomplishment to have finished with in a few tenths of her time after a weekend of close competition.

The previous comment about being nice to the "Gatekeeper" is absolute truth. I make a lot of cold calls, so my first contact is with them. Be really nice, you get through. Not nice, you become the telephone version of dead meat. Be nice to the ladies.

Remember, too, that the person who answers the phone may be the secretary - or the owner just walking by - or the old tech who knows everything about the business. Be nice - can't hurt.

cwh, egad, I am no mechanic! Just the easy-peasy stuff. Yah, I have a few stories of my own. I do love being the only woman at a stock car racing school and posting the fastest lap, or beating a guy in a subaru at autocross... in my pickup truck. I almost had to bitch-slap a performance store owner one time... who told me to "tell him to come in himself so we know we get the right part" I set him straight... and found a few gaps in his knowledge too :-) But you know... I live in a smallish town, and to be honest, after the initial surprise most guys experience at me being a female enthusiast... most of the time I'm treated like one of the guys. And that's just fine with me.

The last two people I've contacted here for advice are woman, and they both set me straight...

EastCoastMojo wrote:

slantvaliant wrote: Not saying it's the case here, but some people are a little oversensitive, and tend to see bias or insult where there may be none.

For the longest time I just kelp saying to myself, "You're being too sensitive", and being a gal I know we have a rep for that kind of thing. So, I tend go in the other direction and try my hardest not to take things personally or let emotions get involved. But when someone comes in the door and you greet them with a smile and ask if they have any questions and you are met with a curt "No, I need to talk to someone who knows something" it's hard not to take that personally. It gets frustrating when almost every new customer you approach has the same assumption that you are there because you are nice to look at and not because you hold your own. It gets old.

This kind of E36 M3 burns me up.

I'm 47 years old, and I've been looking for a woman that shares my passion for the automobile for thirty-four years. I love the young lady I'm with now, and she's a little more enthusiastic about the whole thing after living with me for a bit (and riding with me at an autocross). She's what I've always called the "practical enthusiast"...someone who actually enjoys the physical act of driving, who discovers "by accident" the concept of the Friction Circle, and even understands advanced things like preserving momenteum through corners (in her case, to increase fuel mileage-she grew up poor), and properly apexing corners (to preserve tire life, for the same reason). I'm teaching her how to drive a manual trans, simply because she said the one little autocross run was "better than sex", and she might one day try to do "something like that" for herself. It's the same kind of thing I'd do for any other newbie to our sport, but in this case it's more important to me, because I don't want to discourage a woman who actually cares about this stuff. Especially the one I've been fortunate enough to bond with.

When I recall my days as an SCCA Corner Worker, I can recall the masses of guys who would almost prostrate themselves before a woman that actually cared about our sport. It still amazes me that so many men will automatically discard the voice of a woman, before even trying to apply the same kind of standard to them that they'd do to any other "newbie". And the disrespect shown to women that aren't "newbies" in the first place is just idiotic.

For the record, I don't road race anymore, but I've been autocrossing in Atlanta Region SCCA. I run ST, and Amy Smith has been kicking my ass all year long. I highly suspect it's not simply because her husband built such a great car...

SVreX wrote: You gotta play the cards you are dealt. I love it when someone makes it clear they don't want to work with a white male. Makes it easy. I just send my wife. Similarly, she is perfectly happy to hand the phone to me when somebody doesn't want to talk to a "little girl". Let 'em think what they want- doesn't bother us one bit.

Ding ding ding! Yes, that's the conclusion I've come to after years of resenting the people who passed me over. I figure if they're too prejudiced to even talk to me--and this includes the guy at the parts store who wouldn't hand me the hi-temp paint for a rotary's header until I told him it was for "crafts" (this after I had told him what it was for and what the heat range of a rotary exhaust was, true story)--then my gender has just done me an enormous favor and saved me a tedious conversation with a shiny happy person.

Margie

Margie's right. It sure is nice when stupid people identify themselves as such, straight out of the gate. Saves us all a little time.

friedgreencorrado wrote: When I recall my days as an SCCA Corner Worker, I can recall the masses of guys who would almost prostrate themselves before a woman that actually cared about our sport.

Two observations:

If you could somehow tap into our comm net on any given PHA event, more often than not Safety Steward and /or Control will have a female voice. Both are daughters of veteran workers.

On the parts store side, there will always be someone who will send his wife and/or girlfriend in to get something that requires more information than simply "water pump belt for a '68 International Travelall" and expect the parts guy to figure it out. Not the parts guy's fault or her fault.

True story: (Timeframe: Mid 1980's)

An auto parts store of a Certain National Affiliation hired a young lady to learn to be a counterperson. Owner reasoned that she couldn't berkeley up any worse than some of the guys he'd hired. Turns out she became very knowlegeable and energetic, often going out and getting under someone's hood to find out exactly what the customer was trying to get. One Saturday with customers four deep at the counter, some smartass asked for plugs for a '82 Chevrolet Whatever . She promptly went to the book (pre-computer cataloging!) and found the correct AC plug set. Like the good counterperson she was, she asked, "Will there be anything else?" The smartass replied "Yeah. How'd you like to sit on my face?" She shot back, "Why? Is your nose bigger than your (appendage)?" The store owner was right behind her, and almost swallowed his pipe before collapsing in his office laughing his ass off, as did everybody else in the store...

Dude, if I found a girl that was into cars...! If she could weld, I think I'd marry her on the spot.

mel_horn wrote:

friedgreencorrado wrote: When I recall my days as an SCCA Corner Worker, I can recall the masses of guys who would almost prostrate themselves before a woman that actually cared about our sport.

Two observations: If you could somehow tap into our comm net on any given PHA event, more often than not Safety Steward and /or Control will have a female voice. Both are daughters of veteran workers.

Down here in the ATL, we're lucky. Sue Rothel decided to move down South after she quit DC. Nothing like a Steward with that much experience. And the "Control" for F&C has been female for most of my time with the Region.

mel_horn wrote: On the parts store side, there will always be someone who will send his wife and/or girlfriend in to get something that requires more information than simply "water pump belt for a '68 International Travelall" and expect the parts guy to figure it out. Not the parts guy's fault or her fault. True story: (Timeframe: Mid 1980's) An auto parts store of a Certain National Affiliation hired a young lady to learn to be a counterperson. Owner reasoned that she couldn't berkeley up any worse than some of the guys he'd hired. Turns out she became very knowlegeable and energetic, often going out and getting under someone's hood to find out exactly what the customer was trying to get. One Saturday with customers four deep at the counter, some smartass asked for plugs for a '82 Chevrolet Whatever . She promptly went to the book (pre-computer cataloging!) and found the correct AC plug set. Like the good counterperson she was, she asked, "Will there be anything else?" The smartass replied "Yeah. How'd you like to sit on my face?" She shot back, "Why? Is your nose bigger than your (appendage)?" The store owner was right behind her, and almost swallowed his pipe before collapsing in his office laughing his ass off, as did everybody else in the store...

ROFL! The guy got what he deserved.

Weird thing is, I've been so desperate to find a woman who cares about our sport for so many years that I've actually picked up the habit of immediately going full-course gearhead when I hear a female voice on the phone (or approached by a woman who works at the store). I guess I'm "testing" them..but I don't feel bad about it, since I (regretfully, but honestly) buy into the stereotype that women "test" men about other things.

Yeah, it's never led to anything permanent, but I've had some good times with some great women using that tactic..

Appleseed wrote: Dude, if I found a girl that was into cars...! If she could weld, I think I'd marry her on the spot.

exactly what i did.. lol, we both just started learning how to weld on a small mig, & she lays down a cleaner beed than i do alot of times. she has also gotten into autoX to boot, in her second year (2008) she took our local STS championship...in her focus wagon! of all things....an older guy we race with told her she couldn't race a "wagon" and that was all the fuel she needed. she regularly puts 1-2 seconds on him & his eclipse on a typical 59 second course.! she also helps work on both our focus, some of her ideas has saved us alot of time & money on my turbo build (ZX3)

Marjorie Suddard wrote: I figure if they're too prejudiced to even talk to me--and this includes the guy at the parts store who wouldn't hand me the hi-temp paint for a rotary's header until I told him it was for "crafts" (this after I had told him what it was for and what the heat range of a rotary exhaust was, true story)--then my gender has just done me an enormous favor and saved me a tedious conversation with a shiny happy person.

Margie's "crafts" != what Michael's sells.

friedgreencorrado wrote: Down here in the ATL, we're lucky. Sue Rothel decided to move down South after she quit DC. Nothing like a Steward with that much experience.

NO WAY! (You ARE speaking of the person in her possible late 40s/early 50s, right? The only other Sue R would be her mom...)

I've known her since the '70s. We had a Solo I event at York US30 in '78 when the dragstrip/airstrip was being considered for a road race course. We ran the Solo in the daytime and joined the drag racers at night. IIRC Sue borrowed my helmet and ran my BMW in the drags.

Appleseed wrote: Dude, if I found a girl that was into cars...! If she could weld, I think I'd marry her on the spot.

Thanks, my monitor is now covered in ice water, LOL.

Only because I am a female, who loves cars AND welds, and I have had 2 guys do an on the spot proposal like that in my life.

I actually married the second one (The_Jed on this board).

Mine doesn't get into working on the cars, but she loves the events, and we started frequenting GRM events this year so i will take that as a big win. She has decided the Triumph is hers also.

That must be it... I never learned to weld. Who knew?

Lesley wrote: That must be it... I never learned to weld. Who knew?

Yep, that's the secret. I just figured that it worked in Flashdance, so why not real life, LMAO.

mel_horn wrote:

friedgreencorrado wrote: Down here in the ATL, we're lucky. Sue Rothel decided to move down South after she quit DC. Nothing like a Steward with that much experience.

NO WAY! (You ARE speaking of the person in her possible late 40s/early 50s, right? The only other Sue R would be her mom...) I've known her since the '70s. We had a Solo I event at York US30 in '78 when the dragstrip/airstrip was being considered for a road race course. We ran the Solo in the daytime and joined the drag racers at night. IIRC Sue borrowed my helmet and ran my BMW in the drags.

She was in her 40s when the Runoffs were in Atlanta 15yrs ago. One of my best memories of that time was when I was blue flagging the Formula Atlantic race. I never blue flag for position, I figure knowing who's around you is part of the sport. Some folks were upset with me for not just throwing the flag out at any two cars within a couple of feet from each other (not that it happened very often in FA back then). I think I onlly threw the flag up about twice during that race, because that's the only couple of times fast cars caught traffic.

Sue was the observing steward at my corner, and said it was the best blue flagging she'd seen all day.

Appleseed wrote: Dude, if I found a girl that was into cars...! If she could weld, I think I'd marry her on the spot.

Ap, that's the difficult thing...she has a casual interest in it-but she's not like Margie or Leslie, or ECM, or any of the other great ladies posting here. She finds it interesting, but it's not something she's wanted to do since she was a little girl.

It's actually kind of stressful, since she's "on the brink", and could go one way or the other depending on what I do. I learned this on a trip from our place in Acworth GA up through the mountain roads to the resort town of Helen (where SEDIV SCCA used to hold our ProRallies, back when we had them).

Praise of proper apexing & momentum: Good. Mentioning poor hand position on the wheel: Bad. (she grabs the thing at the bottom-and only uses one hand on the straights)

Going to car shows: Good. Pretty, shiny cars-and she enjoys listening to me & the owners talk to each other. Going to the racetrack: Haven't tried it yet. I think she'd like something casual like spectating a vintage race, but she'd hate following me around at a club race if I decided to work corners all weekend.

Going to the autocross: Not bad. She rode with me at the one she attended, and proclaimed it "better than sex!" Don't know if she'd feel the same if I were chasing points and went every weekend.

She's decided she wants to learn how to drive a manual transmission, but she frames her desire in sibling rivalry terms: "..I can drive better than both my sisters, but they can drive stick!"

I wish I had a lil' extra cash right now. I could probably buy a Miata, stick her ass in it, and make a "convert" for life...

My wife autocrosses, helps me work on cars, maintains her cars (to some degree) and does body work.

Sadly she doesn't weld but then, neither do I (as pointed out by people who've seen my welding attempts.)