Wow, hiring someone really blows!

Let me reinforce a thought that I believe has already been shared - and this comes from 30 years experience interviewing folks and being interviewed myself (NOT as an HR manager).

Figure out what is REALLY critical in a person being successful in the role you need filled. Yes - there is likely a hundred things they need some knowledge of but there are only a few REALLY critical things. 

From dealing with HR managers and hiring managers the thing I saw the most was they wanted to laundry list a bunch of previous experience that likely a half percent of any local population had. OR they didnt know what they really wanted so they wrote this goo of requirements.

I never hired a receptionist but would guess you want somebody that has the communication and people rapport ability and that they will show up everyday. Then maybe beyond that they need some technical knowledge OR has shown the ability to learn something new. My claim is that if you interview based on the critical few and review their job history, you can get the right person. If you can't boil it down to what is critical and interview/select on that basis - I doubt you will be successful in your search.

Yes - you may have to learn and use a new approach in attracting and interviewing potential employees. Yes - this approach requires that you invest in the new employee to get them up to speed on your business, your culture, your technologies and your customers set.  

My (highly opinioned) view is that most job searches (job requirements) are based on some set of overstated "skills," narrowly defined "experience," specific school from which a degree was granted or even the blessed list of "certifications." You hire folks on that basis and I bet you will be looking to hiring again.

SVreX said:

BYW, if that is your ad, it doesn’t look like a front desk employee. It looks like a full blown Dental Assistant. 

I don't think the link Flyinlow posted was his ad.  That ad was for a dental assistant, not a receptionist.  They don't do the same things.

I've been going to the same dentist at least 4 times per year for the past decade or so (I try to get the most out of my dental insurance and I have crappy teeth).  The receptionist there is not the most friendly woman I've ever met, but she is efficient and handles the billing, invoices and procedure estimates quite well. The office has a good networked scheduling system with email notifications and whatnot (which reminds me I haven't received one for my quarterly cleaning in a while), but it does lack online bill paying, which would be nice. The dental assistant in the office is much more personable, but she should be as she someone with hands in your mouth, so a friendly demeanor is ore of a requirement.  

In reply to docwyte :

I can sympathize because my dentist recently had his long time receptionist/scheduler/billing specialist retire, followed shortly thereafter by his wife taking over the role... and within a year going out of business without so much as a note on the door..

But I am in agreement with many others. You seem to be seeking a unicorn. I could see anyone with people skills, a good work ethic and a small helping of smarts adapting just fine in just a couple months. 

Medical billing is no walk in the park, remember that everything you do is a claim with an insurance company. Imagine if you had to make claims to your car insurance all day every day. (Are insurance companies in the business of paying everyone the full amount easily and everytime?)

Yes, my experience is not dental, but I bet dental is similar. You DO need some specialized skills and training to deal with insurance companies all day.

My employer (top 5 DoD Contractor) is going through the same thing in looking for Test Technicians (running complex testing for DoD Radar Systems).  We typically target those getting ready to leave the military with electronics experience as DoD Clearance is a requirement.

We currently have around 10 positions open and cannot find applicants that can get Clearance.

In reply to miatafan :

It's about the only place to find candidates with those skills. One of my best friends still tries to poach me away to Raytheon every time we get together for drinks. Meh, I'm happy where I'm at even if the money isnt as good. I wouldn't have thought it was hard to find good candidates before my current job. A lot of the people we bring in end up getting fired for fighting or stealing or can't pass a drug screen. Pretty frustrating but lucky for me, not my department to worry about

I've been hearing for years, "people are just lazy, they don't want to work anymore. That's why I can't find any good help." 

I saw an ad for an auto tech, small dealership, wanted experience, self starter, has own tools, all the usual. I call them up, tell them I have a degree from a nationally known tech school, ten years experience, been with the same place for 6 years but the owner decided it was time to retire and he was closing up. I told them if they have adequate service info and shop equipment I can do any job they need. They offered me $9 an hour. 9 motherberkeleyin dollars. People aren't lazy, they want to work, they don't want to work for peanuts for some ungrateful shiny happy person that thinks so low of them that even though they spend all day every day making them money they still don't deserve a living wage. 

The hardest part in my opinion isn't finding someone to take the job, it's having them stick around! People just job hop way too much nowadays and are always on the lookout for the next opportunity.

My job uses an onboarding/schedule sending service thingy that I could care less about.  So along comes a job offer from another place through this which seemed pretty rude to me.  You use a service to send out your schedule and it allows other places to poach your employees?  Managers just shrugged and said that's how they got three new hires that we don't need.  I guess I am really just worth that half-evil rate of $3.33 an hour.  The irony is I have to work 50hrs a week just to stay slightly ahead and will have to pay down debt then save save save just to take time off for online courses to get out of the industry preferably in a posture other than boots first.  

gearheadmb said:

I've been hearing for years, "people are just lazy, they don't want to work anymore. That's why I can't find any good help." 

I saw an ad for an auto tech, small dealership, wanted experience, self starter, has own tools, all the usual. I call them up, tell them I have a degree from a nationally known tech school, ten years experience, been with the same place for 6 years but the owner decided it was time to retire and he was closing up. I told them if they have adequate service info and shop equipment I can do any job they need. They offered me $9 an hour. 9 motherberkeleyin dollars. People aren't lazy, they want to work, they don't want to work for peanuts for some ungrateful shiny happy person that thinks so low of them that even though they spend all day every day making them money they still don't deserve a living wage. 

This

During the worst of the downturn i was seeing jobs for concrete finishers that wanted ten years experience, own hand tools, own power trowel, willing to work weekends, 12 hour days and no benefits.

$11 an hour was what was offered. Literally 20 cents more than McDonalds

In reply to Anthony545 :

If more companies were willing to pay people what they are worth instead of letting then walk this would be a non issue. 

MazdaFace said:

In reply to Anthony545 :

If more companies were willing to pay people what they are worth instead of letting then walk this would be a non issue. 

Hey MazdaFace about six weeks ago your were gainfully unemployed???? yes/no   So major congrats on your new endeavor !!

Robbie said:

Medical billing is no walk in the park, remember that everything you do is a claim with an insurance company. Imagine if you had to make claims to your car insurance all day every day. (Are insurance companies in the business of paying everyone the full amount easily and everytime?)

Yes, my experience is not dental, but I bet dental is similar. You DO need some specialized skills and training to deal with insurance companies all day.

Medical billing is a whole lot of mumbo jumbo to learn. I know, I did. Mental health even. 

Interviewed someone today with 25 years of relevant experience.  Have another interview with another person with almost 20 years of experience.

Just had to cull through 150 resumes to find them.

MazdaFace said:

In reply to Anthony545 :

If more companies were willing to pay people what they are worth instead of letting then walk this would be a non issue. 

Yep. I had that conversation with the director of HR at my last company. Companies just don't give raises anymore and you're forced to go elsewhere.

Years ago when I worked at a defense contractor. Every year I worked there I took home less money than the previous year. Why? That "performance raises" didn't even match the increased cost of health insurance.

Ah the experience catch-22.

me: hey boss I’d like to move up into a more specialized area of the department.  You know, make a little more money and climb that ladder.

boss:  Good for you but we aren’t transferring anyone into that department anymore who don’t have a degree in that field.

me:  So I need to go back to night school for a couple of years and I can move to that shop?

boss: Yup.

”Two years (and $20,000 in student loans) later” 

me: OK boss I have the degree in hand, there is an opening in that shop.  I’m ready to go.

boss:  Um yeah, we’re not hiring anyone to do that job without a year of specialized experience in that field.

me:  But you told me to get the degree and I could make that move.  What do you suggest I do now?

boss:  Well you could quit and go somewhere else and come back and reapply for a job here in a couple of years.

The urge to choke someone at that point nearly caused an aneurysm.

z31maniac said:

MazdaFace said:

In reply to Anthony545 :

If more companies were willing to pay people what they are worth instead of letting then walk this would be a non issue. 

Yep. I had that conversation with the director of HR at my last company. Companies just don't give raises anymore and you're forced to go elsewhere.

Years ago when I worked at a defense contractor. Every year I worked there I took home less money than the previous year. Why? That "performance raises" didn't even match the increased cost of health insurance.

To keep rolling with this train, I was amazed at what companies were offering. Extremely shocked at some of the companies--one was hesitant to make me an offer because I didn't have an MBA. But then they decided to offer me LESS than I was making before. Uh, thanks but no thanks. 

Performance reviews are another annoying, pointless exercise. I just gloat about myself and basically say that to make improvements, I should learn how to use SAS or SPSS (which were never approved every time I requested it) because he would be more efficient. They never liked that, but I was not going to give them a reason to knock me down. 

mtn said:

Performance reviews are another annoying, pointless exercise. I just gloat about myself ............ They never liked that, but I was not going to give them a reason to knock me down. 

This. With my employer's new performance review system, my boss no longer solely rates my performance. My boss's, boss's boss does in tandem with the HR department. People that have never met me and have no idea what I actually do for the company get to determine my level of performance based on how I rate myself on the same 11 criteria that apply to all 50,000 employees. Design, engineering, manufacturing, supply chain, legal, finance, HR, PR, all have the same criteria. It's totally not a massive waste of resources...But there's been a sharp decline in performance based raises, so maybe it is worth it to them?

We slowly sinking at work.  Finding guys in the $12-$18/hour range for assembly work is not happening. 

Morale is low and the temps are making me nuts.  We are gonna to lose customers if the upper management doesn’t help.   

I think the other issue at hand is that people don't like doing repetitive work. It's mind numbing. That numb mind leads to mistakes, and those mistakes show up in terrible quality products. 

You can sift through hundreds of candidates but if you think that someone will be content with doing the same thing every hour for the rest of their life, especially when they can hop around to other jobs that pay just the same amount, you're stupid. Manufacturers and really any type of business is going to need to learn to cross train people for many jobs, and you'll no longer hire a "warehouse guy" you'll hire a assembler, warehouse, qa/qc, package handler guy who yes, he may cost more, but at least he'll stay around because he isn't bored out of his mind. 

I'll speak up someone who works in HR departments.

All the complaints are legitimate.  I have experienced a lot of cluelessness when looking for work myself.  I have a had a front row seat to even more. 

Professionally I do compensation analysis. That means I study labor markets to see what my clients need to pay to hire people with the skills they want and not have them leave for pay related reasons. It gives a unique view into an organization because to do it you need to understand how the business works and what roles everyone play in it. Once you understand roles, you need to know what skills and qualifications are critical (vs nice-to-have). Then you take that information and dig through reams of market data to give the best answer you can to  the question "What do I have to pay to hire/retain/motivate a (insert job title) in (insert metro area)?"

I work where psychology and finance overlap in a company. I encounter and wade through peoples' belief and biases about work on daily basis. The one comment I have on this whole situation is that people come to work with as any beliefs about how a workplace should function as they do about how a marriage/primary-relationship should function. There can be some amazing disconnects from reality when it comes to what they think is reasonable to ask from an employer or employee. Like many part of society, the labor market is somewhat broken at the moment. And everybody want to tell others what to do without looking hard at how they are contributing to the dysfunction. There is no one cause and there is no one solution to make it better.  The one thing that doesn't help is stubbornly clinging to your beliefs and ignoring how I, as an employer/employee, can think and act differently to get what I need and want.   

Type Q said:

I'll speak up someone who works in HR departments.

All the complaints are legitimate.  I have experienced a lot of cluelessness when looking for work myself.  I have a had a front row seat to even more. 

Professionally I do compensation analysis. That means I study labor markets to see what my clients need to pay to hire people with the skills they want and not have them leave for pay related reasons. It gives a unique view into an organization because to do it you need to understand how the business works and what roles everyone play in it. Once you understand roles, you need to know what skills and qualifications are critical (vs nice-to-have). Then you take that information and dig through reams of market data to give the best answer you can to  the question "What do I have to pay to hire/retain/motivate a (insert job title) in (insert metro area)?"

I work where psychology and finance overlap in a company. I encounter and wade through peoples' belief and biases about work on daily basis. The one comment I have on this whole situation is that people come to work with as any beliefs about how a workplace should function as they do about how a marriage/primary-relationship should function. There can be some amazing disconnects from reality when it comes to what they think is reasonable to ask from an employer or employee. Like many part of society, the labor market is somewhat broken at the moment. And everybody want to tell others what to do without looking hard at how they are contributing to the dysfunction. There is no one cause and there is no one solution to make it better.  The one thing that doesn't help is stubbornly clinging to your beliefs and ignoring how I, as an employer/employee, can think and act differently to get what I need and want.   

 

   

That’s festinating  Is there some sort of wage/ longevity chart or formula?  I’d love to see the counterpart in management.  Wages/ profitability 

I’ve accepted and am content in the fact that I’m a worker bee, a Drone. I’m not nor would I ever want to be the Queen bee ( King?) 

On the other hand  I’d love to see the justification for paying the mega dollars to top management.  Maybe   that’s what the market actually is? However it seems to me that all too often top management pays middle management just enough to ensure their loyalty and not enough to ensure they can tell truth to top management.  

pheller said:

I think the other issue at hand is that people don't like doing repetitive work. It's mind numbing. That numb mind leads to mistakes, and those mistakes show up in terrible quality products. 

You can sift through hundreds of candidates but if you think that someone will be content with doing the same thing every hour for the rest of their life, especially when they can hop around to other jobs that pay just the same amount, you're stupid. Manufacturers and really any type of business is going to need to learn to cross train people for many jobs, and you'll no longer hire a "warehouse guy" you'll hire a assembler, warehouse, qa/qc, package handler guy who yes, he may cost more, but at least he'll stay around because he isn't bored out of his mind. 

Playing the devils advocate here for a while ( but I actually agree with you). Isn’t the job of top management to maximize profit?  Part of that has to be using trained people in posititions they are trained for? Time spent cross training is like switching spark plug wires on an engine.  

In reply to frenchyd :

I don't really do much executive compensation work. The basic justification for executive pay in the US is "everybody is doing it." Executive pay is much higher in the US than most of the developed world. I have often thought that some group of investors who want to shake things up should buy a big enough stake in a company that the Board of directors has to listen. Then put forward a share holder resolution demanding that BOD look at offshoring the executive rolls. If you can get the same caliber of executive talent in Seoul, Munich or Zurich, for half the cost, that is millions if not tens of millions of Dollars in shareholder value being wasted.

Anthony545 said:

The hardest part in my opinion isn't finding someone to take the job, it's having them stick around! People just job hop way too much nowadays and are always on the lookout for the next opportunity.

Would they job hop if the wages paid were competitive with similar employers or are you trying to get workers on the cheap? 

No employer will offer job security, you can’t!  If business is bad you will lay off people rather than go broke.  

Benefits used to be a cheap way to keep good employees but not anymore. Promotions and raises are another way to keep employees but that requires a rapid growth in business to sustain. 

Go in a quiet room and reflect. If you were in their shoes wouldn’t you go for the best deal you can get?  You only have one life, don’t you want as much out of it as you can get? 

One last thought, if you are paying top wages, benefits, and security and people still are leaving?  Perhaps it’s you and not them?