In reply to chandler :
$0.50/hour($20/week)? No. $5.00/hour($200/week)? Yes.
It's all relative. Would the increase in compensation match the increase in bullE36 M3? People will put up with a lot of bullE36 M3 for the right price, the problem, through my eyes, is that employers expect you to put up with $50k/year worth of bullE36 M3 for $15k/year compensation.
chandler said:Suprf1y said:I'm not sure what you're talking about, I was mostly addressing your comments on contentment and how they're not related to pay. I think pay is the most important factor.
You’d leave your current employer for a .50$/hr raise to a new company with the same benefits that has a bad reputation? No? Then money is not the most important factor.
There are many factors I consider and pay carries the most weight.
It's not the only one, but the most important one.
In reply to Suprf1y :
So, then we agree. Glad to hear it.
I have said many times that they don't pay you for the work. They pay you to put up with the bullE36 M3.
When I was younger, I would probably have jumped for a smaller increase in salary, even if it meant a larger increase in bullE36 M3. Today, not so much. Now, if someone comes along and says they will double my pay but there's a lot more bullE36 M3, well, I'd have to seriously consider that one.
Suprf1y said:chandler said:Suprf1y said:I'm not sure what you're talking about, I was mostly addressing your comments on contentment and how they're not related to pay. I think pay is the most important factor.
You’d leave your current employer for a .50$/hr raise to a new company with the same benefits that has a bad reputation? No? Then money is not the most important factor.
There are many factors I consider and pay carries the most weight.
It's not the only one, but the most important one.
Several years ago, the particular tour I was on was absolutely soul-crushingly brutal and I had a sit-down with my boss's boss about it. Maybe he was my boss's boss's boss, I don't recall specifically. At the time, I was a full time employee of the company, but my full-time and only work was to service another company (let's call them Greater Evil, Inc.) as part of a contract. Not fully aware of all the details, he knew I was miserable so he sat down with me and asked what he needed to do to make things better. Money didn't really come up until he pulled a pretty significant check out of his folder and passed it across the table to me. The message he gave was that he knew that he couldn't do much to help the situation since the primary source of pain was Greater Evil, Inc. but that if I could ride out the contract a little more, he'd find something else for me in the company. What he said about the check was something that has stuck with me: Basically, he said that the money would make me feel a little bit better for a while, but it wouldn't last. Eventually, the awful work environment would wear down the satisfaction I got from the extra money, and even if we repeated the cycle over and over we'd reach a point where there just wasn't enough money to buy my job satisfaction. While I appreciated the bonus, what I appreciated more was his commitment to make the job better in the long term, which he did.
That's really stuck with me over the years. Just recently, I took a little bit of a haircut to move to yet another area of the company because I wanted a new challenge and an opportunity to exercise my professional creativity a bit more. There have been a few jobs that have cropped up that I've thought about, but while there's more money, it would be a long term grind on me that just wouldn't be worth it. Maybe if we were talking about 5 years of total awfulness and then I could just walk away and retire, it might be worth it, but nobody's paying that kind of money for the skills I've got.
The money is a nice feel good when you first get it, but a bad work environment wears on you every hour of every day.
One other note...
This thread started as a dentist looking for front desk help.
I would bet that particular profession is over 95% women.
Pretty sure there would be a big gender divide on this issue. Women are gonna care about the work environment even more than men.
SVreX said:In reply to Suprf1y :
I’m saying that I respect that pay makes the difference to you, but that is not enough for most people.
I suspect that pay is very high on the list. Most people work not for pleasure but to provide their family or themselves with money.
Most people will give their boss a degree of deference in order to keep getting that money. But on equal footing may not even like their boss.
Where is that threshold? The point where an employee will actively seek other employment? It varies tremendously. Depending on many things. Availability of jobs, willingness to seek other employment, degree they are being courted, self confidence, personal financial condition etc.
wae said:Suprf1y said:chandler said:Suprf1y said:I'm not sure what you're talking about, I was mostly addressing your comments on contentment and how they're not related to pay. I think pay is the most important factor.
You’d leave your current employer for a .50$/hr raise to a new company with the same benefits that has a bad reputation? No? Then money is not the most important factor.
There are many factors I consider and pay carries the most weight.
It's not the only one, but the most important one.
Several years ago, the particular tour I was on was absolutely soul-crushingly brutal and I had a sit-down with my boss's boss about it. Maybe he was my boss's boss's boss, I don't recall specifically. At the time, I was a full time employee of the company, but my full-time and only work was to service another company (let's call them Greater Evil, Inc.) as part of a contract. Not fully aware of all the details, he knew I was miserable so he sat down with me and asked what he needed to do to make things better. Money didn't really come up until he pulled a pretty significant check out of his folder and passed it across the table to me. The message he gave was that he knew that he couldn't do much to help the situation since the primary source of pain was Greater Evil, Inc. but that if I could ride out the contract a little more, he'd find something else for me in the company. What he said about the check was something that has stuck with me: Basically, he said that the money would make me feel a little bit better for a while, but it wouldn't last. Eventually, the awful work environment would wear down the satisfaction I got from the extra money, and even if we repeated the cycle over and over we'd reach a point where there just wasn't enough money to buy my job satisfaction. While I appreciated the bonus, what I appreciated more was his commitment to make the job better in the long term, which he did.
That's really stuck with me over the years. Just recently, I took a little bit of a haircut to move to yet another area of the company because I wanted a new challenge and an opportunity to exercise my professional creativity a bit more. There have been a few jobs that have cropped up that I've thought about, but while there's more money, it would be a long term grind on me that just wouldn't be worth it. Maybe if we were talking about 5 years of total awfulness and then I could just walk away and retire, it might be worth it, but nobody's paying that kind of money for the skills I've got.
The money is a nice feel good when you first get it, but a bad work environment wears on you every hour of every day.
I have a son in law who does low voltage installs. Cameras, security systems, computer networks, etc. He enjoys the basic company he works for but some of the customers /contractors are a royal pain or downright jerks.
He put up with it for a few years until he had enough and then gave his notice. To keep him he received a big bonus and raise. Plus they assured him if it ever got to the point he was ready to quit he’d call in and have the owner of the company there as fast as possible To turn the situation around.
It pays to have skills in demand with few others the required certifications and security checks to deal at that level.
Dr. Hess said:Type Q said:In reply to frenchyd :
I don't really do much executive compensation work. The basic justification for executive pay in the US is "everybody is doing it." Executive pay is much higher in the US than most of the developed world. I have often thought that some group of investors who want to shake things up should buy a big enough stake in a company that the Board of directors has to listen. Then put forward a share holder resolution demanding that BOD look at offshoring the executive rolls. If you can get the same caliber of executive talent in Seoul, Munich or Zurich, for half the cost, that is millions if not tens of millions of Dollars in shareholder value being wasted.
I have thought this many times while I worked at a cheap sodapop company that made cheap sodapop that was actively outsourcing everyone they could. The CEO was raking in millions. VP's too. I thought, "Ya know, I bet I could find someone in Mumbai that would be happy to be CEO for only 1 million a year, versus the 25 we're paying this idiot. In fact, I bet that I could get one for fifty large a year. Think of the savings...."
I have a cousin who makes roughly 100 million a year. I’d gleefully do his job for a tenth the money.
Dr. Hess said:I have said many times that they don't pay you for the work. They pay you to put up with the bullE36 M3.
When I was younger, I would probably have jumped for a smaller increase in salary, even if it meant a larger increase in bullE36 M3. Today, not so much. Now, if someone comes along and says they will double my pay but there's a lot more bullE36 M3, well, I'd have to seriously consider that one.
my wife and I both evaluate our current and prospective jobs using the $/bullE36 M3 ratio. Have been doing it that way for years.
SVreX said:In reply to Suprf1y :
So, then we agree. Glad to hear it.
If you still believe that contentment has very little to do with compensation and job longevity is about contentment, not compensation, then no. If you you no longer believe that then yes and I'm glad that I could help.
I took a mini poll at work today.
I asked 14 people the following question:
”Which is more important, compensation or the work environment?”
All 14 said work environment. 5 of them volunteered that they had taken pay cuts in the past to have better work environments.
Full disclosure: 12 women, 2 men.
I spent 10 years as a full time volunteer with no income at all. Best job I ever had.
We obviously have different opinions, but I am not really that concerned about my opinion. I am interested in trying to answer the question, “Why do people leave jobs so quickly”. My answer- discontentment.
YMMV
In reply to SVreX :
The admin we hired last month took a $3/hr cut to come work for us. She went from a large construction company to a very small company. She HATED her previous job. Two weeks after she left, 3 other people quit.
Hired someone today. It's someone that had given me her resume 3 years ago. I'd kept it because I didn't have an opening at that time but she seemed like a good fit. So I pulled out her resume when this opening popped up and I reached out to her.
Interviewed her today, she gets along well with my office manager, has 14 years of dental office management experience and most importantly, is a nice, friendly, extroverted person. Hired her at the end of the interview.
In reply to SVreX :
I’m in sales and I’ve doubled my salary the past 5 years. I’ve had monthly commissions that exceeded more than my 1985 annual salary out of college.
Our office and shop are hard to work at - short handed and always behind the 8 ball.
On vacation a few weeks ago I dealt with daily problems and sent over 200 emails. I get it that my job is sales and it goes with the territory but I considered resigning then realized I got bills to pay.
So it’s not all money - it’s working conditions.
Get the chairperson for PCA Club Racing, she's a hygienist, but is losing her PCA gig in 4 months, so she'll have some extra time to put in at work.
Dr. Hess said:I have said many times that they don't pay you for the work. They pay you to put up with the bullE36 M3.
When i started as a bus driver we were making about $20/hr and school buses were paying $11/hr. Our trainer explained that we got the same $11 to drive and the extra $9 was to put up with the bullE36 M3 here.
Even with good pay, benefits, and a pension it's damn near impossible to keep people here now. Even if we can find someone that passes the drug test, medical, and be taught the job few want to put up with the rigid schedules and rules that come with running a transit system. Add in extremely low morale from a management team that looks at everyone suspiciously for an opportunity to give out suspensions to save a few dollars and it makes for a very poorly motivated work force.
I grudgingly took a promotion about a year ago because of changes in my division limiting my choice of work and overtime and while it will hopefully pay off financially when the wife has to stop working the added headaches are not a all worth the pay. We have almost no qualified people applying for my position and fewer still looking to go further.
The warehouse is filling up. Still no help to be found.
docwyte said:Hired someone today.
Good deal. Isn't it funny how after a few pages, people tend to forget the original issue and the discussion continues on even after that issue is resolved? 
Toyman01 said:The warehouse is filling up. Still no help to be found.
What would you say you do here?
In reply to pheller :
Sales, service and installation of automatic doors.
The flat boxes are door panels, the others are headers and frames. Most of these are headed to a local hospital. I foresee some 7 day weeks in my future.
Datsun310Guy said:I get it that my job is sales and it goes with the territory but I considered resigning then realized I got bills to pay.
So it’s not all money - it’s working conditions.
Thank you for inadvertently making my point. Money > working conditions.
In reply to RevRico :
AMEN! THANK YOU!
In reply to 759NRNG :
Thanks! I'm in charge of procurement/purchasing for a brickyard. Absolutely love it.
MazdaFace said:In reply to 759NRNG :
Thanks! I'm in charge of procurement/purchasing for a brickyard. Absolutely love it.
Do you guys throw this term around the office when you have an upset customer?
”this customer is going to E36 M3 a brick!”
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