You can put your ass on the line for your country....

bludroptop wrote: Excerpted from a different source: "The Marines acted after saying Stein stated March 1 on a Facebook page used by Marine meteorologists, "Screw Obama and I will not follow all orders from him." Stein later clarified that statement saying he would not follow unlawful orders. "During a hearing, a military prosecutor submitted screen grabs of Stein's postings on one Facebook page he created called Armed Forces Tea Party, which the prosecutor said included the image of Obama on a "Jackass" movie poster. Stein also superimposed Obama's image on a poster for "The Incredibles" movie that he changed to "The Horribles," military prosecutor Capt. John Torresala said." "At the hearing this month at Camp Pendleton, Torresala argued that Stein's behavior repeatedly violated Pentagon policy and should be dismissed after he ignored warnings from his superiors about his postings."

Didn't see any of this on any of the 5 articles I looked at. Care to post a link? Obviously, if he's not following orders from his CO, that's a problem.

If he's just a kid who's sick of getting shot at, and is being turned into an example, I think that's wrong, and I'd be curious to know if any of you have close friends (or KIDS of close friends) being shot at every day.

He's got a right to hate the mouth breathing retard son of an oil man who got us into this mess, and he's got a right to hate the "community organizer" son of a drunk legless polygamist oil man who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.

Boy, I miss the good ol' days when dissent was the highest form of patriotism.

If the fact that I hold almost every member of our armed forces in higher regard than ANY politician is considered "floundering," then I'm happy to be a floundering troll motherberkeleyer.

poopshovel wrote: I'm happy to be a floundering troll motherberkeleyer.

Have you considered this as your signature yet?

MG Bryan wrote: "I, XXXXXXXXXX, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." Before you say this, they actually offer to explain any parts of it you don't understand.

I was in the Marine Corps, I had to swear this oath on March 20th 1998 and again on Oct 12th 1998. I was fully aware of this oath and what it meant while I was in. I was not very knowledgeable about politics during those years because I didn't care. With my political stance now, even though I may not like the politics of the boss, I would still follow any orders given to me. Hell, I had NCOs and Staff NCOs just above me that I berkeleying hated and they hated me, but we were still able to keep the chain of command working at such a local level even with the dislike of each other. I never violated the UCMJ resulting in page 11s or page 12s.

Damn, I miss the military order. People told me when I was getting out that I would eventually get to that point... they were right.

Anti-stance wrote:

MG Bryan wrote: "I, XXXXXXXXXX, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." Before you say this, they actually offer to explain any parts of it you don't understand.

I was in the Marine Corps, I had to swear this oath on March 20th 1998 and again on Oct 12th 1998. I was fully aware of this oath and what it meant while I was in. I was not very knowledgeable about politics during those years because I didn't care. With my political stance now, even though I may not like the politics of the boss, I would still follow any orders given to me. Hell, I had NCOs and Staff NCOs just above me that I berkeleying hated and they hated me, but we were still able to keep the chain of command working at such a local level even with the dislike of each other. I never violated the UCMJ resulting in page 11s or page 12s. Damn, I miss the military order. People told me when I was getting out that I would eventually get to that point... they were right.

I ship to Parris Island on the 21st. I genuinely can't wait.

mad_machine wrote: it was not like he was not warned on several occasions. I have a cousin who was discharged with a "general discharge" not for something he did.. but because his wife was in germany with him. Whenever he was off in the field.. she was sleeping with every man on base. It became a serious issue and they forced him out to get rid of him and her

This behavior describes the vast majority of military wives.

rotard wrote:

mad_machine wrote: it was not like he was not warned on several occasions. I have a cousin who was discharged with a "general discharge" not for something he did.. but because his wife was in germany with him. Whenever he was off in the field.. she was sleeping with every man on base. It became a serious issue and they forced him out to get rid of him and her

This behavior describes the vast majority of military wives.

Wow. What an uninformed insulting statement.

That is certainly not true regarding the wives who are based at the Marine Corps Logistics Base in Albany, GA.

In reply to MG Bryan:

Nice man! Though I was a "Hollywood" Marine.

rotard wrote:

mad_machine wrote: it was not like he was not warned on several occasions. I have a cousin who was discharged with a "general discharge" not for something he did.. but because his wife was in germany with him. Whenever he was off in the field.. she was sleeping with every man on base. It became a serious issue and they forced him out to get rid of him and her

This behavior describes the vast majority of military wives.

So true, so true. Guys in my shop(we had 12-14 in our shop E1 to E7 at any time) had cheating ass wives.

One guy's wife slept with another guy. She got sent back the NY and the guy she slept with was officially a "E36 M3bird" and got NJP'd, rank taken, and we never saw him again. He was probably scrubbing bird E36 M3 out of the logistics hanger for the rest of his enlistment

Another guy's wife went berkeleying crazy and would break E36 M3 all the time at his house and have the cops called often.

Another guy's wife would leave him, then he'd leave her, then she'd leave him, it was a berkeleying soap opera.

My wife was berkeleying crazy too, divorced her ass when I got out.

This was all in my small shop.

There is something in the water in base housing man, I swear. And there was always the old rumors that on base housing you could drive around on friday night and look for a different color porch light or some other marker to let you know that the wife's husband was on deployment and come get some.

mazdeuce wrote: Serious question, at what point would it be ok to discharge him for insubordination?

When he starts posting his insubordination on Facebook seems like it fits the bill.

In reply to Anti-stance:

I seem to recall the water in the base housing where I grew up was just fine Then again, enlisted housing was off base.

In reply to neon4891:

Haha. YMMV

Well, under a article 89 in the UCMJ you can get up to the following for insubordination(non-physical) of a superior commissioned officer:

Bad-conduct discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 1 year(big rocks to little rocks, little rocks to littler rocks).

The flip side of freedom is consequences for your actions. As a citizen of this country, he is free to badmouth the president however he wants. However, as a soldier who has sworn oaths, he violated what he agreed to do when volunteering to join the military. These are the consequences for the choices he made.

I disagree with a lot of our military foreign policy, so I won't join the military. If you're not willing to bite your tongue and follow the orders of people you don't like, don't join the military. If you volunteer, and can't bite your tongue, expect to get thrown out.

Also, it appears that he is not losing all benefits as suggested.

Sgt. Gary Stein will be reduced in rank to lance corporal, effective next month, and will receive an "other-than-honorable discharge" for asserting he wouldn't follow orders from the commander-in-chief... ... Marine Gen. Daniel Yoo ordered that Sgt. Stein, who is based at Camp Pendleton near San Diego, be separated from the Marine Corps. The order, which followed a one-day hearing earlier this month, will cost Sgt. Stein, a nine-year veteran of the Marines who served one tour in Iraq, most of his military benefits.

So, it would appear the guy is having his rank reduced (seems legit to me), and this reduction in rank is what will result in a reduction of his benefits. He doesn't have a chance to regain his rank because he's being kicked out. Getting discharged for stating publicly that you're not going to follow orders seems pretty logical to me.

Everyone answers to someone. An E-6 does NOT answer directly to the President, there's a chain of a dozen people in between, possibly more.

This guy had to be warned and/or counselled before the final straw. There's more to the story.

Dan

And you can bet your sweet bippy that Gen. Yoo wasn't gong to stick his neck out for this guy.

In reply to poopshovel:

I don't expect you to understand how the Chain of Command works. I do expect a non-commissioned officer to understand how the Chain of Command works.

According to what little I saw of the UCMJ on this, he's actually lucky. The punishment can include brig time.

I agree that there had to have been a few warnings (okay, maybe more than a few) before they cut loose on him. If he kept doing it, that's nobody's fault but his own.

'Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.'

"..I miss the days when dissent was the highest form of patriotism.."

I served in the Navy in the last century, BEFORE any views (good or bad) that I felt about anything or anyone in the Armed Forces or it's Chain of Command could be seen/read by MILLIONS. It's one thing to tell a "buddy" that you think your Commanding Officer...or your Commander in Chief has his head up his butt, and a WAAAAY different thing to publish it somewheres to be read by the general public. I would think, on first reading, that the punishment here far outweighed the crime. But then, he was warned, and the doofus is in THE most patriotic branch of the Armed Forces.

BTW, "free speech" isn't the only right you give up when you join the Armed Forces.

exactly, you can tell your buddy, but you can't write it on the walls

SVreX wrote:

rotard wrote:

mad_machine wrote: it was not like he was not warned on several occasions. I have a cousin who was discharged with a "general discharge" not for something he did.. but because his wife was in germany with him. Whenever he was off in the field.. she was sleeping with every man on base. It became a serious issue and they forced him out to get rid of him and her

This behavior describes the vast majority of military wives.

Wow. What an uninformed insulting statement. That is certainly not true regarding the wives who are based at the Marine Corps Logistics Base in Albany, GA.

You tell yourself that. I've seen it too many times. I'm not just talking about that young ones, either. It also happens on the other side; I can't tell you how many warrant officers, officers, and higher enlisted have been caught banging cute young privates on deployment.

poopshovel wrote: He's got a right to hate the mouth breathing retard son of an oil man who got us into this mess, and he's got a right to hate the "community organizer" son of a drunk legless polygamist oil man who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.

Absolutely. He does not have the right to insubordination. Something he apparently could never distinguish.

Unless he was actually bucking for a discharge, which is a common game to play.

Boy, I miss the good ol' days when dissent was the highest form of patriotism.

Though it was never tolerated well in the military. Regardless of whatever era of "good ole days" you're speaking off.

I am a Marine who politically agrees almost completely with this Marine.(based on what little I know about him)

But he is trying to represent the Marines Corps through his blog, He is using the Marine Corps to give his ideas creditability instead of letting them stand on their own. He is putting his personal interests in front of all else.

Not good.

These blogs and the rest of this nonsense are a problem in so many ways. Not only from a dissension in the ranks thing.. but to Operational security measures.

If he were more 'covert' with his message.. MAYBE..

You are allowed while serving in the military to attend and participate in political protest. You are not allowed to wear your uniform while doing so...

This lumps him in with Kokesh (the leftist version) and the rest of them. and I think he is doing this more for his own personal gain/satisfaction than he is to help anyone else.. It sure looks to me like he is just out there on his own berkeleying program. again.. Not good. not by any measure.

and friends.. that misses the mark.

MG Bryan wrote:

I ship to Parris Island on the 21st. I genuinely can't wait.

Your resident "doc" says good luck, the Corps won't give up on you unless you give up on yourself.

As to the subject of this thread, I approve wholeheartedly of the punishment that was earned in this case. I may not have always approved of the big guy in charge of me, but that was who the American people as a whole voted into office so it was my duty to follow the orders of the American people and their appointed spokesman.

spitfirebill wrote: The guy pretty much made a big pile then stepped in it. But, a member of congress (or even a president) who is caught lying, cheating and stealing should have the same thing done to them. Lose all the perks.

This!!! But it won't ever happen.

You can badmouth the president and attend demonstrations and protests all that you want, until you do it in the name of the military, i.e. in uniform or proclaiming that you are in the military while doing so.

He would have been fine doing it if he wasn't doing it as someone in the military.

Exactly: Political beliefs, Don't ask - Don't tell.