Yup, time for another annoying neighbor post....

Is there already a fence between Yellow and Red? 

It looks like there is a huge white fence that surrounds both properties. That's weird. Almost like both properties were owned by the same family at one point and they wanted to share yards. 

There might also be a reason why they prefer your chunk of yard over theirs. Maybe you've got some windows that overlook their yard that makes them uncomfortable? Or maybe the visibility out the back of their place is limited, and they get better visibility to the side of their house?

In reply to KyAllroad :

Right of Way. Many time rural properties go to the centerline of the road. The other times there is a set back, usually 30-40 feet from center.

If your property has a sidewalk,  your lot corners will likely be a foot off the concrete. The sidewalk isn't yours, the driveway approach isn't yours, but you are required to maintain it.

It's never a good idea to put a fence right in the line. If that surveyor sucks, the line may be wrong.  If the neighbor catches it, you have to move that expensive new fence. Half a foot is usually a safe bet. If the surveyor is off by 5 tenths, he sucks and deserves a kick in the nuts.

jharry3 said:

Definitely make sure the fence is on the property line.  There should be monuments, usually a length of rebar driving into the ground, at each corner. 

Some states have what is called Adverse Possession.

Adverse posesion is a real thing.  A friend of mine had to sell her house and move because her new neighbor was being a real dick about adverse posession.

DrBoost, you may have a plot plan drawing, but I would invest $500 in having a surveyor come out and physically mark the property line with fluorescent orange paint before the fence contractor appears on site.

Appleseed said:

In reply to KyAllroad :

Right of Way. Many time rural properties go to the centerline of the road. The other times there is a set back, usually 30-40 feet from center.

If your property has a sidewalk,  your lot corners will likely be a foot off the concrete. The sidewalk isn't yours, the driveway approach isn't yours, but you are required to maintain it.

It's never a good idea to put a fence right in the line. If that surveyor sucks, the line may be wrong.  If the neighbor catches it, you have to move that expensive new fence. Half a foot is usually a safe bet. If the surveyor is off by 5 tenths, he sucks and deserves a kick in the nuts.

My annoying new neighbor tried to make the argument that surveyors are off by 60 feet all the time.

He also gated off power access to his property and someone else's property because he thinks an easement means he owns it lol

I just replaced a bit over 100' of fence shared with a neighbor. We both got estimates, and neither of us would have thought about signing a contract without the approval of the other. In my opinion, if one neighbor signs the contract without the okay of the other, that means they are okay with paying 100% of the cost. Now, a good neighbor should still contribute, but they are not obligated to 50% if the fence is not satisfactory or over priced. My neighbor asked if their $6k estimate they got was okay- I said no way, even with the inflated prices that was high. They didn't just go ahead with a $6k fence. We got estimates in the $4k range. Much better, but I was expecting the material prices to drop soon, so we decided to wait. Long story short- we found a contractor with a great price for the labor if we supplied the materials. I bought all of the materials during a dip in the pricing and saved quite a bit. But the contractor sucked, was doing a horrible job, and I had to fire him before he could screw it up any worse. I ended up paying him way more that he was worth for what he had done, and finished the fence myself. A fence is simple, any contractor should be able to do a decent job. If you have questions about the quality of their work, don't go any farther, find someone else. I should have fired my guy after day 1, there would have been less for me to redo and fix. 

volvoclearinghouse said:

DrBoost said:

volvoclearinghouse said:

What's going on at that house in the lower right?  Looks like some sort of a greenhouse or something.  Might be time to make friends with _that_ neighbor...

That's the pool. Wish we had one. We moved in almost two weeks before they did. It was tempting to go jump in the pool. 

Shame.  If it were a greenhouse, they might be growing something interesting in there...

I'm pretty sure glassed-in pools are the near-perfect climate for that.

In reply to Steve_Jones :

It seems petty, but yes, I did.  I figure if they didn't want to help pay for a fence we both use, I get to pick the side of the fence I want to see.

In reply to Antihero (Forum Supporter) :

He in a world of E36 M3 when someone get a proper survey done. And, no, no surveyor with modern laser/GPS equipment will be off by 60 feet. My buddy is upset by hundredths. Of a foot.

In reply to Appleseed :

I wouldn't even split the common fence 50/50. 
 

There is an ugly side, and a good looking side. Sounds like a 60/40 split. 

I am evidently way more concerned about property lines than most of the neighbors I've had.  DrBoost...I assume the same is true for you.  (This doesn't mean we're wrong).

As mentioned, adverse possession is a real thing.  I wouldn't want to have to go through that process and the cheapest, easiest, fastest way to ensure you don't have to is to make darn sure the fence is built in the right spot.

It sounds like you've already satisfied yourself that it will be built on the property, so that's good.

Now about the cost sharing.  If they don't talk to you about the cost before it's built, then all bets are off.  Of course it is neighborly to help pay for the fence (IF it's a fence you want...and in this case you clearly do value having a fence there).  If they come to you afterward and ask if you'll share the cost one way to approach it might be:

"I got a quote for $XXX to build a fence separating our properties.  I shopped around to ensure this is the most competitive price for good quality work.  I'd be happy to pay half of that amount if that sounds ok with you.  What are your thoughts?"

Of course, it would be even better to have this conversation BEFORE the fence gets built.  If they're not willing to initiate the conversation you might* want to.  It will be slightly less awkward beforehand than after, in my opinion.

*I'd say it's entirely possible that they don't want to have the conversation and have no intention of ever asking you for a contribution.  And if you're comfortable it's in the right spot and aren't too concerned with the expected shoddy craftsmanship, that's a bet I'd probably take, lol.

I've only built a couple of (residential) fences myself and I've never asked anybody to help pay for them.  To do so, in my mind, would be a bit presumptuous about their priorities.

Story time:

I had a neighbor start to build a fence not even remotely on the property line.  I had to stop them and make them do it right.  The funny thing is that THEY had PAID for a survey that clearly showed were the property line was.  When confronted about it they said they were told (they probably weren't) by  their realtor where the property line was (incorrectly).  Having been in the real estate game for some time I had the resources at my fingertips to show them where the property line was.  It helped that I had a pretty darn good idea already where the lines were based on nearby pins in the neighborhood.  It REALLY helped that they had recently had a survey done on their own lot.  I simply walked them around their lot and pointed out the clearly marked corners.

Another neighbor, just last year, was super nice and REALLY wanted me to give him the go ahead to build "a really nice fence" (vinyl...barf) between our houses while fully admitting he had zero clue where the property line was.  I smiled and insisted that we needed to know where the property line was for sure before a fence was built.  He still really wanted me to give him the nod to "just build it where it seemed natural" between our houses.  Again I smiled and said that we really needed to find the proper property line.  I offered to help with that (again, I had a pretty good idea because evidently this is WAY more important to me than most folks).  In the end, I got out my metal detector and found the survey markers for him and he was very enthusiastic about that...and built the fence in the right place.  

These are just a couple of examples...I could go on and on.

When I moved into my house, there was a fence on my part of the property. About a year later, part of it broke and I did repairs on it. My neighbor thanked me for fixing his fence. I pointed to the property stakes from the survey I had done and advised him I fixed my fence.

They moved (not due to animosity). A new neighbor moved in and extended the fence. I thanked them for building me a fence. I maintain that, too. I mean, it's my fence.

Kramer said:

In reply to Appleseed :

Capped rebar. 2 explanations for that. 1. Where two different subdivisions come together, double pins are often a reality, or 2. A surveyor was lazy, didn't search, and sunk a rod where he thought it should be.

You might also check your local zoning laws.  Fence good side out or does it matter, fence location from the line?  Doing homework now is easier than redoing a fence.

And yes,  pay for a survey; peace of mind and no arguments later.

Good Luck.

In reply to Appleseed :

Lazy surveyor, in this case.  My dad and brother are both surveyors.  My dad was instrumental in a CE class in Ohio why this is redundant and wasteful. 

I haven't looked for pins, but when we purchased the property the lots were surveyed. They put flags in the ground. The fence contractor is putting the fence a little bit (12 - 18") on his side of the line. For that reason, I'm good. 
The fence is a PVC privacy fence. I would NOT chose that, but the entire 'compound' (about 1.25 acres) is already fenced in with PVC privacy fence. The contactor is going to match the existing fence. since it's PVC privacy fence, both sides are the ugly side LOL.  
I'm 99% ok with the fence issue. I'm not sure how I'll tackle my financial contribution though. The three estimates we got were 5,700, 6,400, and 7,300 (this last one is the same contractor he went with). His estimate is 7,900 because there's an additional $600 fence inside of his yard for a dog run. 
Personally I would have probably gone with the 5,700 bid. Not because it was the lowest, but the 7,300 was high and I'm not happy with that contractors existing work, and the 5,700 bid was itemized and very detailed. 

Not sure if I want to tell him I'd give him 1/2 of the 5,700 bid because that's what I was going to go with, or half of the 6,400 because I'm trying to be neighborly, or just eat it and give him half the 7,300 to promote good neighbor relations. I mean, half of 7,300 is less than all of 5,700 if we initiated the fence work and he didn't go in for half.   

But really, the whole reason for this post was the inconsiderate use of our yard. On that front, I was/am just venting. It's only for another 5 weeks or so. I'll deal with it in the interest of good neighbor relations....unless things to sideways. If his dogs are crapping in my yard, or his kids start messing with the soccer goal, or disc gold goals on my property. 
Really, I just find it weird that they clearly know where the property line is, yet they encroach on my hard by 100+' every day, and basically don't use their back yard at all. I don't know if it's a power move, or if they just figure if there's no fence, it's a common area. It's just weird. 

In the end, a "neighbor issue" could be worse. Much, much worse. 

In reply to DrBoost :

Half of $7300 seems like a good deal to me if you were going to pay the $5700 all yourself anyway. Plus this way you get some extra yard. Are you going to put a back fence on? Or just stick with the dividing fence only?

dculberson said:

In reply to DrBoost :

Half of $7300 seems like a good deal to me if you were going to pay the $5700 all yourself anyway. Plus this way you get some extra yard. Are you going to put a back fence on? Or just stick with the dividing fence only?

That's kinda the way I see it. When we moved in we were prepared to pay for the whole fence ourselves. If the neighbor offered to pay for half, BONUS!

There is a fence on the back, sides, and front. Everything except the division of the two. Here's the pic above without the colored blocks. 

You have room in that back yard for all kinds of additions!

DrBoost said:

...since it's PVC privacy fence, both sides are the ugly side LOL.  

Lol indeed.

About them using your yard (for now, hopefully)...that is weird.  People are weird.  I'd probably handle it like you:  just play along because it should be over once the fence is built.

Story time related to people using land that's not theirs:  When we first bought our property (before we built a house and lived on it...but we still used it regularly) the previous neighbors just used the land like it was theirs.  A bunch of the land here has been inhabited by the same extended family for a few generations and the whole family just treated everything like theirs (and not well).  We'd show up and they'd be walking down the driveway in hunting gear.  They'd appear out of the woods while we were there talking about how they were mushroom hunting.  Etc.

They had an easement to use the first 200' of the gravel drive on our property for ingress/egress.  One day I show up to a camper trailer set up on their land but a good 600' down the driveway.  Neighbor guy said "I would have asked permission but I haven't seen you recently."  Riiight.  (I had provided our contact information...they were following the forgiveness/permission effectiveness philosophy)

Then he goes on to explain that one of their family members is going to live in the camper trailer.  Great.  (Where's the toilet going to flush to?!)

One winter day I arrive at the property to find that the trailer had been removed.  By that evening I had strung a brand new cable across the driveway (AFTER the portion they had legal access to) and locked it.

The next time I saw the neighbor he inquired about if we'd had any vandalism or anything like that...fishing for a reason why we put up a gate across the driveway.  I responded, "We're just trying to establish our privacy on our land."

Eventually they let their property go to foreclosure.  We own it now and are so happy they're gone.  A big part of the reason we bought it was because we were afraid of someone else like them moving in.

logdog (Forum Supporter) said:

You have room in that back yard for all kinds of additions!

Ahahahahaha!

logdog (Forum Supporter) said:

You have room in that back yard for all kinds of additions!

 

Detroit style is the ONLY coney. Flint style is an abomination. 

I still think it's strange that a fence surrounds both properties, but doesn't divide them. 

Hey, speaking of which, it looks like the existing fence runs right up to the neighbors house, but it started on your property. Likewise for the section abutting your house. What's with that?

I still think these properties were owned by related family at one point, and the "compound" was created by those owners. 

In reply to pheller :

Yes, he said they were in fact a "compound" via the previous owner.

Just recently, the family(s) in the compound moved.  Dr Boost bought one and recently moved in. Another family bought the other and just recently moved in too. 

In reply to pheller :

Yes, it is a weird, weird situation. I've had a tree-cutter-downer-guy come out, the Florida Light and Power technicians come out and they all did the same thing when walking into the back yard:
"wow, this is a nice piece of property..[looking to the east]...the fence....who's house....uh..."
At that point I say "yeah, it's really weird here" and they completely agree and are free to say what they weren't saying when they assumed we wanted it this way LOL.

So the previous owner of our house also owned that house. His plan was to level our house, combine it with the lots on either side and behind it and build a community center. When that didn't happen he lived in the house behind us (bottom of the pic) and used our house for his in-laws and guests to crash in. That's why he fenced the whole thing in. 

It's totally weird.  But when the fence is up, we're going to have .66 acres in a prime sub that is being developped. I think it'll do us well in the future.