2002 Saturn (sedan of some type) overheating a "little"

So there is a very high likelihood I am buying a 2002 Saturn, with 206k miles, from BarefootCyborg5000's brother. It has some ongoing overheating issues. New radiator, fan, some sensors, etc. Other than water pump, really good flush (a little bit of chemical?), and then slowly succumbing to the realization that it needs a head gasket, is there anything specific to check on these?

Any reason to not fire it up cold with the radiator cap off the overflow (pressurized tank, it looks like) and see if it is blowing bubbles?

Thanks,

Matthew

Well, looks like the latest bubbling was at nirmal temp, so head gasket is looking more likely.

JY head and a fresh gasket likely to take care of that or is there anything else likely to fail with the head gasket?

As long as the head is coming off, a new timing belt.

In reply to zordak :

Chain, unless it is an L300 with the SAAB V6.

If it is the 1.9, probably should do the chain.

I have not seen one with a warped head, but also any time I had the head off of one was for replacing the rings.

The good news is, there is only like two gaskets on the engine.  The bad news is, everything is silicone, so you have a lot of razoring and wire brushing in your future.

An experienced Saturn tech could rering one in about eight hours.  Head R&R is not much less labor than that since the oil pan has to come off anyway.  This is your opportunity to pop the pistons out and descunge the rings, as they are probably stuck in the pistons.  I never saw any worn out rings, but we were not about to not replace them, you know?

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Pete, thanks for all that info. It is the 1.9 SOHC. Perhaps the leak evidence is from some corrosion near the water jacket, rather than warpage. That would explain why it is not getting worse (coolant is clean). Is there anything in these that would make stuck rings overpressurise the coolant? I wouldn't think so, but I am willing to learn. Do these just have a tendency to have rings stick? If I pull the piston, is there any reason to not replace rings? It looks like $40 will get me rings and rod bearings from RA.

In reply to matthewmcl :

I have seen engines need to be reringed in as little as 30k miles.  Usually 80k or so.

The oil control rings on all the 1.9L cars stick.  There is no solid path for the oil to drain back.  A common practice when rebuilding is to drill drainback holes in the oil ringland area so the oil can drain out.

I've havent seem one lose compression from stuck rings, just burn a E36 M3load of oil.

They are dirt cheap to rebuild, but like Pete said, there are few gaskets and they are all RTV and a pain in the butt to deal with.

If you are going to put any effort at all into one of these cars, just grab a DOHC motor from the junkyard and drop it in.  They have 25 more hp and the only additional cost is about 10 lbs.  They make more power at every RPM, spin higher, and get the same gas mileage. 

In reply to ProDarwin :

What other parts do I need if I go that route? Do AT cranks match MT, or do I need to find an engine from a manual? I have thought of pulling a motor. If DOHC is easy, I might.

I don't know what other parts you need, depends on the year.  I'm pretty sure if you get a 99.5+ motor it just drops in with no other changes.  The earlier ones just have slight differences in intake plumbing I believe.  Everything after 93 should technically work.  I imagine the only other thing you need is the ECU.  These things are very lego-like.

I haven't heard of anyone swapping a SOHC with a AT to a DOHC though, not sure if the trans complicates anything, but I doubt it.

Best bet is to task on Sixthsphere. com

It has been a long time (a shade over 20 years) but I would like to say the manual trans sticks its input shaft into the same size pocket as the torque converter pilot does.

Not sure about the autos, SOHC and DOHC manuals had different ratios.

Good to know that I might not need to worry about what kind of trans is in a donor. The car is MT, now, which is nice. If a donor has MT also, then it sounds like I should just pull them as a unit. If pulling the head means replacing the rings while you are there, a JY motor can make a lot of sense, if the upgrade is not too bad. I will check the local yard. If getting a DOHC looks like a good path, I will try that blue devil stuff as a band aid for now.

ah, yeah if you have a manual, just grab a DOHC with a manual bolted to it.  The SOHC manual bolts up exactly the same but has longer ratios.  You can keep the 5th gear assembly if you want SOHC cruising fuel economy, but in my experience it makes little difference.

Everything (mechanically) on the chassis side is the same.

Does it need to pass emissions when done?  Do they do a visual check or check the year?

We have emissions, but just an OBD2 check. I expect with moving everything appropriate over, it would be no big deal. More things to check, though.

I have seen many Saturns go to the junkyard because of the EGR transistor in the PCM failing.  Dealers will not flash an aftermarket computer and there are no OE computers anymore.

Regarding stuck rings/oil burning, I think the eventual cause (at least on the DOHC models,  wouldn't be surprised if SOHC is the same) is the PCV valve.  They tend to fail in a fairly short interval, and the aftermarket ones were pretty much junk.  I used to have a bag of them when I had an SL2, and would just change it up every 20K miles or so, since they were cheap.

In reply to eastsideTim :

Not so sure about that.  The aforementioned lack of oil drainback at the oil rings would cause the rings to stick.  It was not the best setup, one of the ways they were able to make the cars so inexpensive was little shortcuts like that.

The DOHC models with plastic intake manifolds were bad to get coolant leaks at the intake seals (not really a gasket per se).  Definitely would want to replace them with the engine out of the car... although I have done them in as little as a half hour  Book time IIRC is 4.5.  You can't get the intake off without a lot of finagling and "ratchet strap the engine as far forward as you can" is not really a procedure you can put in official documents...

Yeah the PCV can be an issue if they fail, but the main oil burning issue is rings.

For the most part they are cockroaches and if you keep oil in them they will keep doing their thing forever, but they are becoming plagued by the parts availability of 25+ year old GM cars.

I have never heard of the EGR issue.

The other thing that sends them to the yard is the eventual auto trans valve body failure (and subsequently loosening the input shaft nut).  Both of these can actually be addressed in the car fairly easily but its rare someone goes through the effort.

I still miss my '98 SL2 daily driver from time to time.