lespaul166
lespaul166 New Reader
3/10/24 12:46 p.m.

Working on a 70 Trans Am, timing cover was cracked, no biggie, get a new one and get it all installed, with paper gaskets with RTV. Pressure test the cooling system, and see massive pressure loss and bubbles pouring out of every single sealing surface when sprayed down.

Weve since tried just paper gaskets (leaked the worst), paper gaskets with Permatex #2, water pump and thermostat gasket maker, paper gaskets with Permatex Gasket Dressing, all 4 get installed, let to dry a little bit, tightened down, left to sit for 24 hours, pressure tested, and the result is always a deluge of bubbles pouring out once pressurized and sprayed down with soap. Reaching the end of our rope, as a timing cover on one of these isnt exactly a fun job and leaves a big open cavity in the oil pan while working. Id be convince there was an issue with one of the components if i didnt have a leak at every joint thats been "resealed". So far we hav leaks between the timing cover and block, water pump and timing cover (which have a plate between them so that becomes 2 separate leaks), thermostat and intake manifold, and intake manifold and cylinder heads. 

I cant possibly figure out what is going on here. I cant think of anything we could possibly change at this point that would make a difference. Do we need to be throwing caution to the wind, filling the system, fully reassembling the car, and running it up to operating temperature? I dont have much experience with paper gaskets in cooling systems, most of what I work on are rubber seal cars. Im completely lost. Weve tried damn near everything and the end result is always a massive loss in pressure and no sealing at every single flat flange cooling joint in the entire system. the entire diameter of the water pump is leaking, the entire diameter of the thermostat is leaking. Do paper gaskets need to be run to temp and retorqued to seal? I understand besides testing, a car will never be at operating pressure while cold...Also that the metal should expand when hot and crush the gasket more...

ShawnG
ShawnG MegaDork
3/10/24 1:16 p.m.

Have you checked to see if the new cover is actually flat?

I've done more than a few of those and always used the grey Right Stuff sealant. Never had them leak after using Right Stuff.

Make sure it's the grey one, if you use the black, you'll need a chisel to get it off.

Getting the separator plate to seal can be a bugger.

Before you put it together next time, lay the separator plate on the water pump and make sure the impeller is as close to the separator plate as you can get it without touching. A little massaging with a ball peen hammer may be necessary. This will make a huge difference in coolant flow.

If you've removed the manifold. The proper sequence is to install the timing cover and water pump. Put some sealer on the rubber ring that goes between the manifold and timing cover. Install the manifold and make the bolts finger tight. Now tighten the bolt that draws the manifold and timing cover together. Now tighten the intake manifold down.

As for manifold to head leaks, are the bolt holes clean so you're actually pulling the manifold down tight? Double checked the gaskets for proper fit? Little bead of sealant around the coolant ports?

DarkMonohue
DarkMonohue GRM+ Memberand Dork
3/10/24 3:13 p.m.

Definitely double-check for flatness.  I have documented my mistrust of new aftermarket parts here before and will try not to go on a tirade.  You're having the same problem with different materials, so the issue is probably not the materials you are using.  It's more likely either faulty parts or a flaw in your technique (torquing out of sequence, etc.).

I'm pretty certain my AMC 360 got a paper gasket when I replaced the water pump years ago.  I can't remember what I used as a dressing, but it probably got Hylomar if I had any.  It hasn't leaked since.  The great thing about Hylomar is that it is non-hardening and makes disassembly much easier.  Toyota FIPG (00295-00103) is excellent, as is the grey Right Stuff that ShawnG suggested, although they do cure up and require more elbow grease to remove if and when you have to do the job again.

APEowner
APEowner GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
3/10/24 4:17 p.m.

Yeah, that shouldn't be that difficult.  Check flatness, fastener length, hole depth and cover shape.  Also make sure you use thread sealant on any fasteners that go in holes that penetrate the water jacket.  I never use anything other than brushtack to hold the gasket in place during assembly.

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