Tonight we had some good racing, some bad racing, some issues we expected to deal with, and some we didn't plan for but maybe should have.
I really hoped I would do better than I did. Over the last week I spent lots of time practicing and setting the car up and got down into repeatable 1:44s and even the occasional 1:42 and really thought I had a fighting chance. Then race day came and it was all over the place. Part of it was nerves and part of it, I think, was tire pressure. I was seeing about 2-3 psi higher than normal. Maybe that's not a factor, but it seems like maybe the ambient temp on race night was higher than I'd been practicing with, and the car felt like it was low on grip. I didn't realize what was happening in time to do anything about it.
Then, true to form, I bobbled a corner exit trying to make room for another driver, spun into the infield (making no contact with anybody), and was teleported back to the pits with a 30-second "hands off" penalty for mowing their clover. Brutal. Just brutal.
The number of people on makes for great racing, but also makes it hard to pick out the right voice when we have special instructions to follow, like during the Restart of Many Colors event we had tonight. That was confusing as hell to me. Chalk part of it up to being new and in the way, but part of it is just flat chaos, and I don't think I was the only one struggling to figure out what was going on.
And then, after all the reminders Dean graciously issued about keeping your head up and racing clean, I went and stuffed him but good when I got distracted by a little would-be spectator with chocolate pudding on his face and a burning desire to get in my way. That's squarely on me. I normally leave the office door open when practicing and will close it when racing from here forward.
Maybe next week, or the week after, or whenever...
Rodan
UltraDork
9/7/23 7:20 a.m.
In reply to DarkMonohue :
I noticed the tire pressure thing halfway through qualifying at Goodwood last week. My settings had been lined up with the race server, and I had never had that problem before, so I'm not sure what changed? This week I was prepared, with a setup with tire pressures set on the practice server. I have a 2-3psi difference between my single practice and the GRM server. If I have time this week, I'll try to figure that out.
Race one was going well until I ran into the back of Sauce in T1... not sure what happened there, but sorry, definitely on me. I was even braking early to try to set up a run on the exit, and then it just wasn't stopping. Managed to work back up to mid-field after everyone went by, so I guess that's as good as can be expected. Didn't get into the 1:41s, but got close.
Race 2 was a E36 M3 show.
Honestly I think last night has some foibles but went all in all reasonably well. Race 1 definitely seemed to go off without much of a hitch and the expected T1-T3 pile-up never seemed to materialize despite what felt like very many cars wide into T1.
Race 2 definitely had its issues, however with the likelihood of a restart on the reverse grid racing increasing as attendance increases I think the PLANNED way of doing a Race 2 start after restart was great. The only issue is that we were all trying to sort out what to do while also doing it. I think adding to the confusion was that we went reverse quali order instead of reverse finishing order but when not everyone was entirely sure of their finishing order that was definitely the path of least resistance.
Maybe this means a rule change, so I'll go ahead and propose it:
In the event of a reverse grid race restart wherein competitors lose intended grid position due to the session restart, a rolling start will be used. Prior to lights out, the first and last qualifier shall identify themselves on voice chat VIA IN-GAME NAME (e.g. "Skid in rear", "Colin in front"). Qualifying positions will be reversed regardless of Race 1 finishing position, with the car qualifying LAST rolling away FIRST at speeds NOT TO EXCEED 25MPH. First qualified car will radio readiness to group once they have completed the rolling train VIA IN-GAME NAME (e.g. "Skid in rear, ready"). After readiness has been announced, the lead car will call race start with countdown (e.g. "All racers ready, 3, 2, 1, GO").
Open to suggestions on changing, but if we have some kind of method that is already set, then we'll avoid the confusion we had last night trying to figure out what to do. If we keep reverse quali order on restart it will mean no one has to remember (and potentially mis-remember) finishing position, and should make pulling away to form the train a sub-1 or sub-2 minute ordeal meaning there will still be a good deal of racing. Having the caboose of the train calling readiness (and having them identify themselves before even leaving the grid), should make it so that everyone on voice chat knows to quiet down once they hear that voice again (or hear the name if their voice is too similar to another) and not miss the race start like we also had last night.
Rodan said:
In reply to DarkMonohue :
I noticed the tire pressure thing halfway through qualifying at Goodwood last week. My settings had been lined up with the race server, and I had never had that problem before, so I'm not sure what changed? This week I was prepared, with a setup with tire pressures set on the practice server. I have a 2-3psi difference between my single practice and the GRM server. If I have time this week, I'll try to figure that out.
The server has a target grip setting +/- a few %. Not sure how Dean has it configured.
Race 2 was a disaster. I saw you and Sauce rage quit (politely) . I was about 15 seconds from doing the same.
I'm 100% on board with whatever rule changes that help us avoid this in the future as long as they can be implemented by the server. Its very clear to me that self-administered starts (like yesterday's rolling start) should be avoided. Split race, no reverse grid, forced starting order, whatever.
My quitting was only minimally motivated by what was going on, though it wasn't great. I've had some work/personal things going on and was tired, and had contemplated just skipping the race all together which in hindsight probably was the answer. I wasn't vibing with the track, didn't like my car setup, like others found braking to be inconsistent at times and wasn't happy with my driving. I was making mistakes all over the place just happened to not hit anyone while doing it, ending up off track at the back of the pack in the last iteration of race 2 was just an excuse to end the misery.
Rodan
UltraDork
9/7/23 9:55 a.m.
e30Matt said:
ending up off track at the back of the pack in the last iteration of race 2 was just an excuse to end the misery.
That pretty much covers it.
In reply to gunner (Forum Supporter) :
+++ 1 & agreed
DarkMonohue said:
Tonight we had some good racing, some bad racing, some issues we expected to deal with, and some we didn't plan for but maybe should have.
I really hoped I would do better than I did. Over the last week I spent lots of time practicing and setting the car up and got down into repeatable 1:44s and even the occasional 1:42 and really thought I had a fighting chance. Then race day came and it was all over the place. Part of it was nerves and part of it, I think, was tire pressure. I was seeing about 2-3 psi higher than normal. Maybe that's not a factor, but it seems like maybe the ambient temp on race night was higher than I'd been practicing with, and the car felt like it was low on grip. I didn't realize what was happening in time to do anything about it.
Then, true to form, I bobbled a corner exit trying to make room for another driver, spun into the infield (making no contact with anybody), and was teleported back to the pits with a 30-second "hands off" penalty for mowing their clover. Brutal. Just brutal.
The number of people on makes for great racing, but also makes it hard to pick out the right voice when we have special instructions to follow, like during the Restart of Many Colors event we had tonight. That was confusing as hell to me. Chalk part of it up to being new and in the way, but part of it is just flat chaos, and I don't think I was the only one struggling to figure out what was going on.
And then, after all the reminders Dean graciously issued about keeping your head up and racing clean, I went and stuffed him but good when I got distracted by a little would-be spectator with chocolate pudding on his face and a burning desire to get in my way. That's squarely on me. I normally leave the office door open when practicing and will close it when racing from here forward.
Maybe next week, or the week after, or whenever...
Dark I was driving with you on Tuesday for a bit, and your car control was really good that night. It does look like the track was maybe a little less grippy last night.
I think overall both races were well behaved. I know that in my other series with rFactor we do a reverse grid for the second race. Numbers are normally half or less of what we are seeing here so remembering who finished where and getting the grid formed up before the end of the first sector is far easier than what we experienced last night. I have seen that normally the reverse grid goes off without a hitch, last night I will say the track factored in a small bit. Those first three corners with 2 tight, tire lined chicanes made it very hard. I will say that the 911 I have been driving makes it treacherous simply due to it's shot out of a cannon start ability. I may have to clear the red mist from my eyes on the starts and ease up a bit, I know that I can get aggressive off the line and that doesn't help some others.
I will say that racing with everyone here is fantastic, we are all pretty well behaved and some tracks lend themselves to reverse grids, and some don't.
"Until next time, if the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy!" Red Green
Colin. We have to walk the line between "suck it up buttercup and get better" and using the HC system to artificially create close racing.
A don't feel it is an unreasonable system. It is used in racing and has been for years. I forget the exact series ( IMSA maybe?) but they both invert the grid for the second race of the weekend and also impose weight to the winners of the first race. I think that weight sticks with a competitor for the season.
Remember the goal is to promote close racing. To do this we have to pull the best drivers back..
Colin you are just that darn good and you have a very good attendance record. Have you clinched the series at this point? It would not surprise me if you had.
I think that the current system works reasonably well. The racing is close but ultimately those that are the better drivers do rise to the top and usually end up competing for the series win. Also attendance matters. You are a prime example of it. A big part of it is that your attendance record is excellent. You will most likely win the series. Those that could give you competition have not been as consistently attending. It is also partly why you have ended up with such a large HC. But the system also rewards attendance. (As it should).
Sk1dmark (Forum Supporter) said:
Honestly I think last night has some foibles but went all in all reasonably well. Race 1 definitely seemed to go off without much of a hitch and the expected T1-T3 pile-up never seemed to materialize despite what felt like very many cars wide into T1.
Race 2 definitely had its issues, however with the likelihood of a restart on the reverse grid racing increasing as attendance increases I think the PLANNED way of doing a Race 2 start after restart was great. The only issue is that we were all trying to sort out what to do while also doing it. I think adding to the confusion was that we went reverse quali order instead of reverse finishing order but when not everyone was entirely sure of their finishing order that was definitely the path of least resistance.
Maybe this means a rule change, so I'll go ahead and propose it:
In the event of a reverse grid race restart wherein competitors lose intended grid position due to the session restart, a rolling start will be used. Prior to lights out, the first and last qualifier shall identify themselves on voice chat VIA IN-GAME NAME (e.g. "Skid in rear", "Colin in front"). Qualifying positions will be reversed regardless of Race 1 finishing position, with the car qualifying LAST rolling away FIRST at speeds NOT TO EXCEED 25MPH. First qualified car will radio readiness to group once they have completed the rolling train VIA IN-GAME NAME (e.g. "Skid in rear, ready"). After readiness has been announced, the lead car will call race start with countdown (e.g. "All racers ready, 3, 2, 1, GO").
Open to suggestions on changing, but if we have some kind of method that is already set, then we'll avoid the confusion we had last night trying to figure out what to do. If we keep reverse quali order on restart it will mean no one has to remember (and potentially mis-remember) finishing position, and should make pulling away to form the train a sub-1 or sub-2 minute ordeal meaning there will still be a good deal of racing. Having the caboose of the train calling readiness (and having them identify themselves before even leaving the grid), should make it so that everyone on voice chat knows to quiet down once they hear that voice again (or hear the name if their voice is too similar to another) and not miss the race start like we also had last night.
I also have a variant on this. Except no rolling start. If I restart the server the grid reverts to the finishing order of the last race. We invert like we tried to do last night by the cars leaving starting at the back of the field working forward. The field comes around and stops on the grid (now in reverse order). The person at the back of the field then calls the start once they are in position.
I would like to test this next week and see how it works.
e30Matt said:
My quitting was only minimally motivated by what was going on, though it wasn't great. I've had some work/personal things going on and was tired, and had contemplated just skipping the race all together which in hindsight probably was the answer. I wasn't vibing with the track, didn't like my car setup, like others found braking to be inconsistent at times and wasn't happy with my driving. I was making mistakes all over the place just happened to not hit anyone while doing it, ending up off track at the back of the pack in the last iteration of race 2 was just an excuse to end the misery.
You just described my week last week almost to a T. Really sucks. Sorry you had all that happen.
dean1484 said:
Sk1dmark (Forum Supporter) said:
Honestly I think last night has some foibles but went all in all reasonably well. Race 1 definitely seemed to go off without much of a hitch and the expected T1-T3 pile-up never seemed to materialize despite what felt like very many cars wide into T1.
Race 2 definitely had its issues, however with the likelihood of a restart on the reverse grid racing increasing as attendance increases I think the PLANNED way of doing a Race 2 start after restart was great. The only issue is that we were all trying to sort out what to do while also doing it. I think adding to the confusion was that we went reverse quali order instead of reverse finishing order but when not everyone was entirely sure of their finishing order that was definitely the path of least resistance.
Maybe this means a rule change, so I'll go ahead and propose it:
In the event of a reverse grid race restart wherein competitors lose intended grid position due to the session restart, a rolling start will be used. Prior to lights out, the first and last qualifier shall identify themselves on voice chat VIA IN-GAME NAME (e.g. "Skid in rear", "Colin in front"). Qualifying positions will be reversed regardless of Race 1 finishing position, with the car qualifying LAST rolling away FIRST at speeds NOT TO EXCEED 25MPH. First qualified car will radio readiness to group once they have completed the rolling train VIA IN-GAME NAME (e.g. "Skid in rear, ready"). After readiness has been announced, the lead car will call race start with countdown (e.g. "All racers ready, 3, 2, 1, GO").
Open to suggestions on changing, but if we have some kind of method that is already set, then we'll avoid the confusion we had last night trying to figure out what to do. If we keep reverse quali order on restart it will mean no one has to remember (and potentially mis-remember) finishing position, and should make pulling away to form the train a sub-1 or sub-2 minute ordeal meaning there will still be a good deal of racing. Having the caboose of the train calling readiness (and having them identify themselves before even leaving the grid), should make it so that everyone on voice chat knows to quiet down once they hear that voice again (or hear the name if their voice is too similar to another) and not miss the race start like we also had last night.
I also have a variant on this. Except no rolling start. If I restart the server the grid reverts to the finishing order of the last race. This is done exactly like we tried to do last night by the cares leaving starting at the back of the field working forward. The field comes around and stops on the grid (now in reverse order). The person at the back of the field then calls the start once they are in position.
I would like to test this next week and see how it works.
No rolling start would work as well, as long as all the tracks we're on have well defined grid boxes to start from. I have done zero research into that so am not sure if there are decent lines painted on the asphalt of most or if the cars are just placed into a grid from the way the modder made the track.
It will never be perfect. The person calling the start will also have a big advantage but being at the back would help. Also once your car is in position on grid no talking. A big problem last night was no one heard the call by the leader to go. Except I think me and skidmark.
Had a thought, is there any server option to teleport a car to pits if their steering is off-center once the lights are up? Similar to what happens if they haven't clicked the wheel button to drive. That could've prevented the race 2 start disaster.
In reply to GameboyRMH :
Not that I am aware of. Maybe in the headless server setup that Pro found.
GameboyRMH said:
Had a thought, is there any server option to teleport a car to pits if their steering is off-center once the lights are up? Similar to what happens if they haven't clicked the wheel button to drive. That could've prevented the race 2 start disaster.
Some of that is going to be on situational awareness too. At the start of Race 2 before lights out my wheel wasn't centered but AC tells you that. It has a notification around where the lights will be saying your wheel isn't centered and has a graphic to ensure you get your wheels straightened by race start.
You can do Rolling Start with this add-in (same add in supports driver changes)
https://docs.worldsimseries.com/article/32-rolling-start-assetto-corsa-real-penalty
Looks like herding cats
As noted, I think the rolling re-start can work, if done as outlined above, ONLY two people talking, the lead and the rear.
The primary issue we seemed to have last night is not being knowing who to listen to, and/or being able to hear them because we were talking over ourselves.
I am looking forward to testing this next week as part of the week off.
Since i was gone yesterday I didn't here about the break. What's the occasion?
I am not going to be around (in Reno for the final Air Races there).
Dean dunt do the maths.
We could use some testing to find a car for next season.
In reply to Mike924 :
Thanks. Hopefully my tone isn't too negative. I'm not trying to complain or stomp my foot in anger so much as share some observations and experiences. Hopefully that either prompts a solution, like the keyboard shortcut add-in, or helps someone else who is just starting out. If things get really terrible, I'm sure Dean will refund my entry fees.
Regarding the tire pressure issue, it seems like there's a bit more to the game to be aware of, which is fine - it adds to the realism and makes it more rewarding when we get it just right.
Keep your stick on the ice!
In reply to DarkMonohue :
You are good.
I have seen differences between practicing on line on the server versus off line. It is why I always practice on the server. It is why I leave it up 24/7 for people to use.
aircooled said:
As noted, I think the rolling re-start can work, if done as outlined above, ONLY two people talking, the lead and the rear.
The primary issue we seemed to have last night is not being knowing who to listen to, and/or being able to hear them because we were talking over ourselves.
It should be the host's prerogative to call "line clear" or "10-3" or whatever to silence all the extraneous radio chatter. That would go a long way toward making sure we all hear what we need to hear.
