Comfort medun I think was the tire look at my previous post.
Re the price I am concerned that the cars over $30,000 may be ringers. Also I want to keep I to the family wagon minivan series. More of the every day driver. An A6 avant is not that. Also I suspect tgat the wrx and sti variants of the Subaru's will also have an advantage. I have not tested so I may be wrong on this.
Went back and looked it is CS tires on the 484's
Damn, I did a quite a bit of testing with CS. So far, I'm finding that the AWD cars have the advantage because of the poor tires. I think the RS6 Avant is too big and heavy to be a contender, along with the S4 Avant. Also, that price cap would knock out the reasonable VW GTI.
Unfortunately I will miss tonight's testing. Family stuff.
Mr_Clutch42 wrote: Damn, I did a quite a bit of testing with CS. So far, I'm finding that the AWD cars have the advantage because of the poor tires. I think the RS6 Avant is too big and heavy to be a contender, along with the S4 Avant. Also, that price cap would knock out the reasonable VW GTI.
Like I said there can be exceptions to the rules. It was all my thinking with no testing.
I have not tested the focus but if it is like the other ones it should be very good. I am liking the two toyota's. With the CM tires nothing gets much grip. That is the reason for the CM tires.
So tonight 484's and some more of those buzz box's and I would like to do another tire ware race that is a bit longer than the one we did with Air.
Made this up quickly.
Dean, we ran the 484 cars on CS, only the Kei cars were on CM.
I may or may not make it tonight, depending on how late other things run.
Ok as I see it we could do a M5 tuner series with tire and fuel. I think the 05 and the 08 are about equal. They really go through tires and fuel but are still decent handling cars that can still bite you.
I was also wondering if it would be worth it to not allow lightning of the m5. Run it at stock weight and 575 pp. This would increase the tire and fuel ware even further and slow them down a bit more. We should look at this a bit more. The down side to this is they may get more twitchy.
I played with a couple awd cars at the 575/1500 mark and they are much better at that pp handling wise. The awd cars are slower in a strait line but have better brakes and are faster through the corners but the m5 walked away from them on the straits.
Another thing of note is that the m5 does not draft as well as I had hoped it would. Passing is really going to be a challenge. The good side is that they seem relatively bump resistant.
What did people think of the 484 series? I liked it. There is a huge variety of cars. I am thinking of a 30k price cap with a couple exceptions. My testing tonight found that the Subaru's over that amount were faster than most other cars. Maybe a ban on wrx and sti Subaru's. I really need to do some testing of all the cars for the 484 series. I have to see about carving out some time for that. I am going to be testing them using the preset suspensions unless I find a really bad car then I may try twerking I a bit.
There was one other car that someone said was a ringer in the 484 series. I don't remember if it was a Mitsubishi or a Nissan.
We need to decide if the 484 is going to be a full tuner or MC tuning.
Dean, I'm not sure if we need to run the M5's at full weight. Even at ~1500kg I was only getting 5-6 laps out of a set of tires and was using 1/8th of a tank of fuel per lap. If tire wear gets any faster it may eliminate any sort of pit strategy and put everyone on the same schedule. I'm all for testing it out, just saying that it's a consideration.
We can test the M5's some more on Wednesday.
Also, as another goof race, I want to try something. Please purchase and bring one (or few) of the following:
These are FULL stock. NO oil change. NO tire change. No brake bias tuning. NOTHING. They should be the PP shown.
These are all supposed to go around Midfield within 1/10 of each other, and as you can see, they are very different types of cars. Should be interesting.
I did a little more testing with the 484pp wagons. The Vibe feels a little better than expected, but really slow. The Lancia Integrale Evoluzione feels really old and outdated. It's really slow, too. The 120i and '09 STi are good. The '00 Sport Wagon STi feels outdated, but it's fast. So far, there shouldn't be any cars banned, but it could be a three way race. The 120i will probably not be competitive without heavy tuning, it's too tail happy with these parameters.
I tested on Trial Mountain since Laguna Seca seems to have too many straight aways to expose some of the inferior cars. Maybe traction control hides some flaws, too.
I don't think I will be able to make it on Wed. practice, so post any important findings.
Clutch what was the other car I think you mentioned that was a Ringer. I have twenty cars or so I need to test. I am going to try and do that tomorrow night if anyone wants to join in.
I found that the Mitsubishi airtrek turbo r 02 was a ringer, but with traction control on and at Laguna Seca. In general, nothing is far superior than the rest of the field.
I tested a few 484 cars last night and came to the conclusion that this will be a 4WD series. The FF cars have a power advantage, but understeer badly and can't accelerate out of corners. The FR cars might be doable but require extreme throttle control to put the power down, and I'm willing to bet won't handle bumping well. The 4WD cars are much easier to drive, are more stable, and can put the power down much earlier.
For me, the '09 STi was the fastest at Trial Mtn, followed by the VW Golf R (only 0.1 behind), and one of the older Subie wagons was a little further back along with the Toyota Caldina. The Audi RS4 is an interesting car, and one that can definitely be competitive. It's heavy but carries its weight well and was probably my favorite car to drive. It gives a bit up in the tight sections due to its heft, but once it gets going it's dang fast in a straight line. I think it was about 1 second behind the fastest cars at TM, but I'm willing to bet that result would be different at a faster track.
Edit: The Honda Odyssey (which started this whole thing) really isn't competitive. I have tried several different tunes and have yet to find a way to dial out the understeer at corner entry. The only way around it is to just toss it in and hammer down on the power, but it just doesn't have enough grip to do that and be fast. It's fun, but is 2-3 seconds slower than any other 4WD I tested.
In reply to e30Matt: Do you think that the performance cars should be banned like dean insists? I don't find them to be fast enough to do so.
I did more testing on Trial Mountain. I like the 09 STi the best, and I got my best time with it. I just bought the Golf R, and I was only .066 sec. behind. I got the 03 2.0 GT Legacy wagon .66 seconds behind the Golf R, and the Caldina GT four is only .037 seconds behind the Legacy wagon.
It was difficult to get the Legacy to that time with these parameters. The Caldina feels better IMO, but is slower. Since I'm faster, I will probably need to rerun the 00 STi sport wagon. I don't like the RS4 here, the Legacy is better IMO. I should also rerun the 120i just to be sure if it can't keep up. I find it odd that the 120d has a power and a weight penalty compared to it's gas counterpart.
Also, we need a SSS series, probably 2. One can/should be one of the FF cars that can't compete in the 484pp tuner series. I think we should run the '13 Focus ST or the Renault Sport Mégane R.S. '08. Either one, with SH tires.
I did a bit of testing for the "five doors- no waiting" 484 series. Otherwise known as the "Smokin' tires" series. I was trying to test the different drive trains. I found that they could be made pretty equal by doing this: AWD gets power and tranny mods only. FF gets power, tranny, diff, and weight adjustment. FR gets power, tranny, and diff. The AWD cars need to lap a bit slower since they have such a tremendous advantage at the start.
Sauce and I were testing tonight at GVE. I ran probibly 80% of my list. I was thinking a 5-6PP HC for the 4wd cars and maybe a 1-2 PP HC for the FR cars. This makes keeping track of things easy. Otherwise all cars are full tune to the standard GRM tuning ruels.
I need to test several of the 4wd cars and see if the PP hit slows them enough.
I only tested one FR car and it was about a second off the 4WD cars and since there are only two of them I can confirm if the need a pp adjustment.
I also think we need to mandate that Spool drives the PT Cruiser. That thing will spin the tires through 5 gears. 
I need to take my car list and put the lap times by each car and put it in a spreadsheet. Then sort on the lap times and see how they sort out. We may just eliminate the top cars or give them a 3pp HC for every second a car is over the average.
In reply to dean1484:
No PT cruiser. Gimme a RWD car so I can at least slide around lol.
Also, I may not be able to make it tonight either. Gotta catch up on things after playing racecar all weekend. Dang life getting in the way of my fun time.
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