This works for another summer activity, like canoeing.
This works for another summer activity, like canoeing.
How it fits is more important than who made it.
akamcfly wrote: How it fits is more important than who made it.
QFT
Also, as long as it's DOT certified, a $50 helmet will protect you as well as a $800 helmet. Granted, the $800 helmet will most likely be more comfortable - vents for cooling, padding, etc.
RealMiniDriver wrote:akamcfly wrote: How it fits is more important than who made it.QFT Also, as long as it's DOT certified, a $50 helmet will protect you as well as a $800 helmet. Granted, the $800 helmet will most likely be more comfortable - vents for cooling, padding, etc.
That is not true. The certification means that they both meet the same minimum standards conducted by a testing lab. It is very possible to exceed the safety minimum, but the helmet will not be credited with any more then the "DOT" stamp.
Bell is a good brand, it doesnt matter how they fit on me if we have a different shaped head. Go back to the store and try the helmets on, only you can say if they are comfortable
I like my Z1R if you are looking on the lower end of the price range. Also check Bikebandit's closeout stuff for decent deals.
I have a Shoei helmet for autocross. Its the only one that fits my fat head. I'd probably look for a Shoei moto-x helmet should I feel the need to attempt death.
I like my Bell Star. I also have a sweet photochromic shield for it. Look for reviews on youtube from places like sportbiketrackgear for some really good gear reviews.
louisewatson wrote: Or have you tried wearing them?
Considering that everyone's melon is a different shape, how the helmets fit others will have no effect on you.
Why not go try some on to see what you like and how they fit, get an idea of what you're looking for, then go price shopping.
RealMiniDriver wrote:akamcfly wrote: How it fits is more important than who made it.QFT Also, as long as it's DOT certified, a $50 helmet will protect you as well as a $800 helmet. Granted, the $800 helmet will most likely be more comfortable - vents for cooling, padding, etc.
That's a big negative, ghostrider.
40 some years of offroad racing experience here and here's some of what I have learned:
Many low end helmets have similar hard styrofoam and foam rubber padding like the high end stuff but there the similarity ends. The low end helmets have polycarbonate shells. Polycarbonate has some good characteristics but shock absorption and structural integrity are not among them. I have personal experience of a poly helmet which, when I landed head first on a piece of cinderblock sticking out of the dirt, split open all the way over my head. At that point it could easily have come off and that would not have been good.
OTOH, a fiberglass helmet will, if hit, deform and crack in the area of impact but the rest of the shell will stay together meaning much less chance of it coming off. As part of that deformation process, fiberglass will spread the impact load over a larger area rather than just cracking open. This is why Snell will only rarely certify polycarbonate helmets; DOT specs are much less stringent. It's also why car helmets have a different set of specs than a bike helmet. Bike helmets are tested with a single impact similar to hitting a concrete curb, car helmets with multiple impacts similar to bouncing off a roll cage.
I consider DOT to be a bare minimum, Snell to be better. In fact, if you look at the certification labels, you will see dual certification Snell/DOT on fiberglass or Kevlar but not on polys.
Fit is very important, definitely more so than brand.. The helmet should be tight enough that when you move the helmet, the skin on your head should move with it but there should be no 'pressure points'.
EDIT: I have owned Bell, Shoei, Arai, and G Force helmets along with a few off brands. They al fit differently, on my noggin the Arai fit best but it was also damn near $600.00.
I recently bought a Scorpion EXO700, my melon falls at the high end of 'large' and it was too tight. An XL fits perfect, even though it shows to be a bit too big in their sizing chart. So it's worth trying on a few lids.
I was pretty sure this was a spam thread, but I didn't see how. I think I do now.
As for the DOT/Snell thing, Snell has apparently changed their testing such the that their approval is closer to DOT now. They won't admit it, but they did.
My choice for a race helmet is DOT.
Ask any race organization why they require Snell aproval. The ones that know will tell you it's an insurance requirement, not a safety requirement.
Interesting article, and turns out I'd read it before. But it's typical lamestream media, it's about half a print page to explore a very technical and far reaching subject.
Snell's response to the NYT article:
http://www.smf.org/docs/articles/responsenyt
The NYT article completely ignores the polycarbonate vs. fiberglass debate, for instance. (Based on my personal experience, I use polycarbonate for face shields and water bottles, not wrapped around my head. I kept that helmet as a reminder for years; somehow it got lost in one of my moves. Gimme a fiberglass brain bucket any day.)
It also completely ignores the fact that it is impossible to predict shock forces and where they will ultimately wind up. DOT is no better or worse than Snell in that respect.
The $79.95 helmet is not mentioned by name or any details of its construction given.
DOT standards do not include chin bar testing. Snell does. Is a chin bar important?
There's about half of why race organization insurance companies specify Snell. FWIW, Snell does not certify 'modular' or 'flip up' helmets because the chin bar on those is basically useless except for keeping bugs out of your mouth.
Snell was created many years ago (1957) in response to the death of Pete Snell when the helmet he was wearing failed and directly led to his death. Why? Because there was no standard to judge a helmet, the DOT was looking down their pants and had not created any sort of standard, for instance leather helmets were still in vogue. FWIW, it appears that DOT did not start certifying helmets until 1973. http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2007-title49-vol6/pdf/CFR-2007-title49-vol6-sec571-218.pdf
Don't know if Canada requires DOT or any other standards.
Fiberglass, carbonfiber, and Kevlar weaves are good. Polycarbonate is not so good. I'm a polymer chemist and have done testing on all of these materials. That said, a PC lid is better than no lid. There are also different grades of PC with different mechanical properties. It's usually one of those materials that's used to be "good enough" for a given application while remaining relatively cheap.
And curiously Snell changed their testing methods. Hmm.
For street and motocross, DOT is required. For some other off road bike racing that I know of, it is DOT or the ECE standard. For autocross, and rallycorss it's Snell. That in itself is a joke.
Zomby Woof wrote: I was pretty sure this was a spam thread, but I didn't see how. I think I do now.
I'm inclined to agree. I've sent a message to the powers that be to see if they want the posts from "louise" to be deleted.
Zomby Woof wrote: And curiously Snell changed their testing methods. Hmm. For street and motocross, DOT is required. For some other off road bike racing that I know of, it is DOT or the ECE standard. For autocross, and rallycorss it's Snell. That in itself is a joke.
Down here SCCA Solo 1 (AX) can be done with a M helmet (motorcycle). Link to PDF of acceptable certification labels:
http://cms.scca.com/documents/Solo_Rules/2009_helmet_certification_bulletin.pdf
Solo II (TT, hillclimb, etc) requires an SA2005 or better, no M helmets allowed.
This has just about got to be a spam thread. The good part is it did spark a discussion about helmet certification and testing, which is good stuff for anyone to know.
http://www.helmetboys.com/pages/World-Motorcycle-Helmet-Safety-Standards.html
As far as the Snell realigning to DOT standards, that was mostly in the 'transmitted G forces' category. It did not change Snell's more stringent specs for the helmet shell (which is why they do not certify poly) or their testing of chin bars where DOT does not.
Also FWIW, about Snell being a joke: in Britain, a spec called 'ACU Gold' is required for motorcycle track competition and it is different from the ECE standards, i.e. it sets higher standards. Guess the Limeys who race see their minimum standards as something of a 'bare minimum' as well.
The G force spec can be argued from both sides all day and all night. IMHO, the problem with the lower G force rating is the 'softer' materials used will 'bottom out' faster, meaning they quit working, thust ultimately the transmitted G force number will be a moot point. It's not much different than the arguments from people who refuse to wear a helmet because they are linked to a higher percentage of broken collarbones.
As I mentioned, I made my personal choice to go with fiberglass Snells instead of cheaper DOT only poly shells because I have grown sort of attached to this big hairy wart perched on my shoulders. I cannot predict what my helmet will hit in a crash or know for sure if ultimately it will save my life, but I do know polys break open and to me that is completely unacceptable.
For the record, this NYT article is basically a condensed version of the larger piece that Dexter Ford wrote for Motorcyclist, called "Blowing The Lid Off" (PDF warning). It was a thoroughly well-designed test, and probably the most important piece of journalism the motorcycling community has seen in the last decade or two. (And it basically cost him his job at Motorcyclist because the helmet companies that advertised with them didn't like the results of the testing.)
Over the course of a few years of selling cycle parts and accessories/gear, I've had this conversation more than I care to recall, so I will just encourage everyone to read the piece and come to your own conclusions. My personal conclusion: no more Snell helmets, only DOT/ECE.
Thanks. That is the article I was looking for.
Thanks. That's the article I based my "a $50 helmet will protect you as well as an $800 helmet" comment from.
FWIW: my new Scorpion EX0700 with a fiberglass/Kevlar shell and meets all DOT and Snell specs was $129.90 including shipping. Must have gotten a discount on the Snell sticker for that one.
I do hope none of us have to find out which side of that article is correct.
Curmudgeon wrote: FWIW: my new Scorpion EX0700 with a fiberglass/Kevlar shell and meets all DOT and Snell specs was $129.90 including shipping. Must have gotten a discount on the Snell sticker for that one. I do hope none of us have to find out which side of that article is correct.
Amen, brother.
FWIW: My last two helmets were Scorpion EXOs - a 700 and a 900. The 700 was good, but the 900 sucked. The ventilation was non-existent and it was noisy!
The 700 has decent ventilation but will whistle at the bottom of the shield if I tip my head down a bit or turn it to the right. I think it's the sheld tab. Otherwise, I really like it; light and good fit. I'd put it on a par with my last Arai which set me back ~$450.00.
You'll need to log in to post.
